It is currently Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:49 am

All times are UTC





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternatives
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:38 am
Posts: 283
Location: UK
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1990
I am after I an aftermarket Paso clutch for a project I am working on , but other than a very expensive racing Kit offerred by an Italian co. I could not find anything elsei

I wanted a basket, a hub and a pressure plate possibly in Alloy, so I was hoping someone knows where to get them.

AlternatIvely are any of the modern parts (including the discs) c ompatible with the old clutch ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 364
Location: Essex UK
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1992
I think all ducati clutches are the same, even wet and dry have same pattern plates with early 750paso having a plain and friction double sided 1st plate. (I have 1 of these somewhere if anyone needs it, brand new)
This company sells steel and alloy friction plates only and a lot of owners I know are using them, instead of buying friction and plain sets at double the price. I have a set of alloy in my 999 no problems.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ducati-748-91 ... 2a0906fbe0
They should fit a Paso motor, (dry clutch yes?). A rumour is they are made by firm that supplies Ducati. Every so often Mortirize advertise 5%, 10% and I think 20% discount so worth putting in your ebay watch list if you don't need them yesterday.

K.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:39 pm 
Offline
paso grand pooh-bah
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 5237
Location: southern Germany
model: 750 Paso
year: 1987
angelix, what are your plans and what is the clutch you mentioned ?

The only things you will find are different type of clutch discs i.e. with alloy carrier or sintered pads.
I do have a brandnew alloy clutch basket. A beautiful & lightweight piece I bought from an italian guy who had made a miniseries.

I always wondered if the general dimensions of the Paso and later clutch baskets were the same as it would be interesting to see if it was possible to fit a 40 tooth clutch kit if it only needed a groove machined for the securing spring.

G.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:38 am
Posts: 283
Location: UK
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1990
Discs are easy to find, you just need to be carefull and chose the DRY clutch version.

There are many opytuions including sintered, standard, with Alloy plates.... many prices and many brands.

as for the basket, drum and pressure plate, I managed to find the following:

- OLD RACING PARTS
8DR0010 – F1 L.S. S.M. Montjuik Dry clutch kit = 463,60 Euro
8DR0014 - Pressure clutch plate light = 195,20 Euro

Then I checked with Ducati Dortmund development and they told me they still have the DRUMS only (135 Euros), plus they can supply the Dry clutch discs also in ALLOY version.

Then I checked with Ducati Kämna and they told me they have the Basket, beautifully made, (at 231 euros), but NO other parts.

all prices should be without VAT, so that needs to be added.

I am not sure if Kaemna and Dortmund Dev. could be mixed up, but in theory, why not?

Other suppliers ? if I manage to find anything else I will update the Thread.

There is very little out there, I wonder how many bikes with the old dry clutch F1/Paso Stile are still running out there...


Attachments:
Frizione OLDRACINGPARTS.jpg
Frizione OLDRACINGPARTS.jpg [ 100.38 KiB | Viewed 3686 times ]
Frizione Dortmund.jpg
Frizione Dortmund.jpg [ 19.04 KiB | Viewed 3686 times ]
Frizione Kaemna.jpg
Frizione Kaemna.jpg [ 55.77 KiB | Viewed 3686 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:13 pm 
Offline
paso grand pooh-bah
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 5237
Location: southern Germany
model: 750 Paso
year: 1987
are the first two pics also Kaemna parts ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:20 pm 
Offline
paso grand pooh-bah
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 5237
Location: southern Germany
model: 750 Paso
year: 1987
the one that I have


Attachments:
DSCN1770.JPG
DSCN1770.JPG [ 58.4 KiB | Viewed 3682 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:38 am
Posts: 283
Location: UK
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1990
G., the first two pictures are from Old Racing Parts in Italy, the second is from Ducati Dortmund Development and the third is from Ducati Kämna

I have been working on an SS 750 project for years now and since the engine I have is the same as the one fitted on the Pasos , I have also the same clutch system.

everything is tuned, polished and lightened, I also have a nice brand new F1 racing clutch cover (drilled at the factory) the only thing missing is a lightened clutch.

I was hoping I could find things cheaper, these things are soooo expensive... I guess will end making my own!!!!

I do have the same thoughts, I too wonder is there is anything from the modern clutches that can be fitted or adapten on the old ones, I guess the only way to know is to try?!?!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:51 pm 
Offline
paso grand pooh-bah
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:50 pm
Posts: 3187
Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Did you check with Ed Miltch ?

_________________
Ducati,making mechanics out of riders since 1946
There's no problem so bad that a little fixing can't make it worse! : )
If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
88 750
90 906
92 907ie


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:38 am
Posts: 283
Location: UK
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1990
Ed Milich? I got his website and he does supply the lightened steel basket at a reasonable price, I will contact him and see what does he say.

As for the rest, I did notice the milling on the drum (internal where mates fith the shaft) is different looking at the Kaemna and the Old Racing Parts.

It should be like in the Kaemna picture, I guess the other is just for catalog purposes as the finer milling is typical of the later engines.

I woinder, is the original drum made of steel? I guess it is, by fitting it in aluminium I wonder how long will it last?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:16 pm 
Offline
paso grand pooh-bah
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 5237
Location: southern Germany
model: 750 Paso
year: 1987
The one Ed is offering also on ebay is a used one. As it`s lightened quite a bit I wonder if it won`t open (spread) and cause clutch problems at higher rpms which is why most lightweight or performance baskets have the ring around them.

Alloy basket and drums will require alloy clutch discs or you`ll have chatter marks pretty fast.

If you have too much time you can do what this guy did :mrgreen:


Attachments:
kkern.jpg
kkern.jpg [ 62.45 KiB | Viewed 3643 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:38 am
Posts: 283
Location: UK
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1990
that is sick!!!!

nice work tho'

I had a reply form Ed, he advises not to use the alloy drums/hubs as they tend to crack.

I have the feeling a lot depends omn how they are made, I guess a that using forged 7075 alloy (ergal) would be better than the casted version (looks like) I found.

Anyway it is just an itch (or a monkey jumping on my shoulders), I am over 16 stone (100KG) and spending money on light parts is rather useless.... having said that, the monkey is demanding a nice light clutch...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:38 am
Posts: 247
Location: Mildura ,Australia
model: 750 Paso
year: 1986
Wow , Ed replied to you, I'll be buggered ! :lol: :lol: :lol:

On a serious note, that is a coarse spline clutch hub ,that will NOT fit the paso or later models, only
the pantah's and 750 f1's , you need a fine spline for the sports and paso's.

If your motor has a coarse spline input shaft , it is either a early 750f1 or a 650 pantah motor.
if it is neither of these then you will have the short input shaft,that will not fit a dry clutch assy.

also you may have trouble with the 750f1 clutch cover as it has a larger hydraulic capacity than the
paso and sports.I was told by Ian gowanloch that the master cylinders are matched to covers for correct
operation.Not sure on that one as I havn't tried mine yet. rgds. J


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:38 am
Posts: 283
Location: UK
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1990
jayh wrote:
Wow , Ed replied to you, I'll be buggered ! :lol: :lol: :lol:

On a serious note, that is a coarse spline clutch hub ,that will NOT fit the paso or later models, only
the pantah's and 750 f1's , you need a fine spline for the sports and paso's.

If your motor has a coarse spline input shaft , it is either a early 750f1 or a 650 pantah motor.
if it is neither of these then you will have the short input shaft,that will not fit a dry clutch assy.

also you may have trouble with the 750f1 clutch cover as it has a larger hydraulic capacity than the
paso and sports.I was told by Ian gowanloch that the master cylinders are matched to covers for correct
operation.Not sure on that one as I havn't tried mine yet. rgds. J


I am not sure if it is a fine or coarse spline, my engine is a mix of a half dozen different models, unfortunately I really do not recall the spline type and despite having a million pictures the ones I have of the cranckshaft show the spline taped for "protection"

I don't know about the F1 cover, that sounds new to me!!!

Matching the MC to the Slave sounds weird, looking at the old catalogues I can see the same MC (Paso) was fitted to completely different bikes (906, 907ie, 900SS) , I cannot see it being replaced on the F1; Having said that, I wouldnt be surprised if they had radial MCs fitted of the special series (Montujich, LagunaSeca) matching special covers


in anycase i really cannot care that much, I am using 999 MC and works perfectly with the cover that is fitted on the bike now, which is the same as the one "lightened" (NOS , ducati original from the factory) so I dont see a problem there.


EDIT: I checked the parts catalog and the F1 (Montujich) had in fact a different MC and different Slave (I am looking at the numbers) unfortunately I dont have access to the F1 standard so I cannot check what was fitted on those


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:38 am
Posts: 247
Location: Mildura ,Australia
model: 750 Paso
year: 1986
The F1 clutch cover has a larger diameter bore than the paso for the piston,hence it requires more fluid from the master cylinder to operate.

I was warned that people have had trouble with incorrect clutch activation,by not using the matching master cyld.

I'm not sure on that as I wont be able to test mine for a while longer,but if you do have trouble,this could be a reason.I don't usually operate on heresay but Ian is very knowledgeable on ducati's,so I thought that I would pass the information along.

The later model 750f1's have a fine spline input,the same as a paso.
The earlier 750f1 ,650 pantah and allazura motors run a coarse spline input.
There is also a coarse spline wet clutch input shaft that looks the same but is 4 or 5mm shorter and cannot accept a dry clutch modification.

rgds jay


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paso clutch (again) compatibility / aftermarket alternat
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:38 am
Posts: 283
Location: UK
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1990
jayh wrote:
The F1 clutch cover has a larger diameter bore than the paso for the piston,hence it requires more fluid from the master cylinder to operate.

I was warned that people have had trouble with incorrect clutch activation,by not using the matching master cyld.

I'm not sure on that as I wont be able to test mine for a while longer,but if you do have trouble,this could be a reason. I don't usually operate on heresay but Ian is very knowledgeable on ducati's,so I thought that I would pass the information along.

The later model 750f1's have a fine spline input,the same as a paso.
The earlier 750f1 ,650 pantah and allazura motors run a coarse spline input.
There is also a coarse spline wet clutch input shaft that looks the same but is 4 or 5mm shorter and cannot accept a dry clutch modification.

rgds jay


Jay, thanks for the input, however I need to clarify few points just to avoid confusion.

I went through my files and yes there was an F1 cluch cover with a bigger slave piston, however I cannot be sure that it was fitted to all the models... knowing ducati that was only on few selected such as the Laguna Seca or the Montujich, unfortunately without having access to all the literature that is not possible for me to confirm.

Anyway, when I mentioned I had a F1 racing cover It was because everybody seems to identify the one with the OEM "racing" drilling as being from an F1.

The same cover was fitted to other models (without drillings), however Ducati also supplied it DRILLED as original spare part and had the very same slave piston as the one you find on a standard cover, in fact I got the spare from the local duke dealer and that is exactly the same as the old one.

My dry hybrid clutch (999 MC, standard slave) works perfectly fine... the whole point of the excercise was because I just wanted to see if , out there, you can still find anything racing related in case someone wants to have something lighter.

My case is a little particular because my engine is unique as it is assembled with parts coming from Paso, Elefant, M600, M620, S750, SS750, F1 and only God knows what else... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

as nothing is standard, you understand that in my case applying standard rules it is nearly futile :roll:

one example is the spline clutch side... I truly do not remember how is it the one I have so, to find it out, I will have to phisically look into it; unfortunately the engine # is irrelevant as I dont know exactly what crankshaft I have :smoke: ... Funny is that I do have pictures of it but both sides are covered with tape! :banghead:

It does not matter anyways, from what I am told, the best thing to do is to keep the original steel drum/hub as it appears the alloy version tends to shatter under stress.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: