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 Post subject: Wiring diagram - fault ?!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:21 am
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Location: Belgium
model: 750 Paso
year: 1989
Hi,

Currently I'm working on designing/making a new wiring loom for my Paso 750.
Intention is to use the Motogadget M-unit (either the "old" V2 or the new "blue" version, depending on my budget).
Also I will renew/exchange all connectors (if possible for waterproof ones, like Superseal, Deutsch mt, Furakawa etc.).
Only real difficult ones are the 3 connectors on the dash (wire to board connectors), I have not been able to identify the terminals.
I wanted to use new terminals in the old connector housings since the plastic housings are still ok.

So far so good, but now I either have lost my mind or there is a fault in the wiring diagram (very unlikely but nevertheless).
If I look at the horn there are 2 wires: green/black which is the switched tension/voltage, the other one is grey.
I assumed it will be connected to mass after a switch (horn button) but when I follow the wire it becomes green and then green/black (switched tension/voltage) !!! :banghead:

Can anyone (Higgy) help me and tell me which mistake I'm making .... :wacko:

Frank

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 Post subject: Re: Wiring diagram - fault ?!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:06 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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model: 907 I.E.
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I just had a look at the diagram. You are right, it's wrong. The same diagram shows the parking light circuit connecting to ground through a black wire! Why don't you measure out the wiring through the LH switch. I'm fairly sure you will find that the horn button will connect to ground through a black wire.

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 Post subject: Re: Wiring diagram - fault ?!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:37 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: southern Germany
model: 750 Paso
year: 1987
lots of other Ducatis of that era used the same light/horn switch unit. Just have a look at the wiring diagrams of the California P750, 906, 907ie, Sport etc and you'll see that the horn switch makes a ground connection as Derek says. It's not the only mistake in the wiring diagrams. Sometime a wire has one colour code on one end and a different on the other although there's no connector inbetween that could explain this :wacko:
Are you planning to make some changes to the wiring?


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 Post subject: Re: Wiring diagram - fault ?!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:21 am
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Location: Belgium
model: 750 Paso
year: 1989
Ok, thanks!
Just wanted to make sure I'd seen it correctly.

Gerhard, yes I will make a complete new layout, that's the consequence of the Motogadget M-unit.
The M-unit is a bit like the domotica systems: on one side you have all the input gates and on the other side all the output gates.
The controller decides (with multiple settings to choose from) which output gates are activated and when. https://motogadget.com/shop/en/m-unit-blue.html
Revival (from Austin, USA) have quite a few videos on YouTube on this Motogadget M-unit: https://youtu.be/dmexjVEZ2q8



I will mount a new R/R (SH775 if it works ...), a new solenoid, new main fuse, new 16mm2: starter, battery and mass cables.
As a consequence the ignition switch, all handle controls (light, turn indicators) etc. will work with mini Watts, so no overheating of wires and terminals again (I hope ... :lol: ).

So, instead of making changes to the wire loom I will make a complete new and fresh one (famous last words :fart: ).

I'm working on the new diagram, but to be sure I also checked the original just to be sure.

Again: I have almost all the new water proof connectors I need, but for the 3 used on the dash (instrument panel).
I have asked TE connectivity to help me but they said it's not one of their's.
So if someone knows what brand or type those terminals are, please let me know since I need at least 14 of them.

The stator wires I will most likely renew (the 2 yellow and 1 red) but I don't know if I can renew them completely or if I have to splice them. :huh:

If someone has a remark or advise: feel free to let me know.

Frank


Attachments:
File comment: Dash terminals Paso
rsz_20180727_115608.jpg
rsz_20180727_115608.jpg [ 55.58 KiB | Viewed 922 times ]
File comment: Cables 16 mm2 (5 awg)
rsz_1img_8888.jpg
rsz_1img_8888.jpg [ 175.57 KiB | Viewed 922 times ]

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Suzuki SV1000S - 2008
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 Post subject: Re: Wiring diagram - fault ?!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:21 am
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Location: Belgium
model: 750 Paso
year: 1989
Here's a picture of the Motogadget M-unit " blue", for thosevof you who don't know it.
It's German, very high tech and admittedly a bit overkill for a Paso.

There is also a basic, without bluetooth and roughly $60 cheaper but eith bluetooth it is much easier to configurate (I've used the "old" version: V2 for my Bimota project, and although similar much more difficult to configurate).

Frank


Attachments:
File comment: Motogadget M-unit blue
rsz_motogadget-m-unit-blue-control-box-2.jpg
rsz_motogadget-m-unit-blue-control-box-2.jpg [ 105.57 KiB | Viewed 906 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Wiring diagram - fault ?!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:53 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: Scotland
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1994
Frank.61 wrote:
The stator wires I will most likely renew (the 2 yellow and 1 red) but I don't know if I can renew them completely or if I have to splice them. :huh:

I would renew them completely, soldering the new wires direct to the stator. However you are unlikely to find a 3-core cable with correct colour of cores and may have to compromise on the colours.

Incidentally, my 907 has the 2-wire alternator.

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 Post subject: Re: Wiring diagram - fault ?!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:29 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: southern Germany
model: 750 Paso
year: 1987
The spring connector looks the same as the ones used on my '86 Vespa T5 instrument panel. So you can check, the overall width of the connectors is about 6,8mm, the width of the contacts 2,6mm and the overall length 21mm. There's a logo on mine but I can't identify it.
Piaggio's supplier of their wiring O.M.G S.r.l..


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gruppo-cavetti-strumentazione-connettore-contachilometri-vespa-px-px-millennium-originale.jpg
gruppo-cavetti-strumentazione-connettore-contachilometri-vespa-px-px-millennium-originale.jpg [ 123.4 KiB | Viewed 879 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Wiring diagram - fault ?!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:07 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: southern Germany
model: 750 Paso
year: 1987
O.M.G. seems to be a dead end. However those connectors were commonly used on Veglia instruments i.e. on Fiats and Ferraris. Veglia (Borletti) was taken over by Magnetti Marelli.
In an italian Fiat Panda 4x4 forum I found a link to this catalog. Check p.23.
https://app.box.com/s/rtdmucey4aumngggsjqxc8a8vn7x32u5
The company is COPAT in Italy. http://copatconnectors.com/
The bad news is the link is to their 2013 catalog. In their 2018 catalog the connectors are not listed.

If there's an old BOSCH service in your area it might be worth checking if they have something in their old stock.

Btw the circuit board/foil is from SILGA.

G.


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 Post subject: Re: Wiring diagram - fault ?!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:21 am
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Location: Belgium
model: 750 Paso
year: 1989
Hi Gerhard,

Thanks!
I did find out that Fiat (eg Panda, 1st generation) and Piaggio (Vespa) did use these terminals.
Also I did check Molex and Copat (imho a Molex copycat :huh: ), but I couldn't find this terminal in their current catalogues.
Since Molex current similar terminal dates from circa 1991 I assume it was original a Molex terminal and it's predecessor (just guessing :-P ).

Thanks to your OMG Srl tip I tried to check them out but sofar not very succesfull (not 100% sure which company, although I think they are seated near Pisa in Cascina di Buti).

I was thinking to buy 2 Vespa cables in order to use these wires for my wire loom, but they are to short.
I will also inquire if Fiat has some service terminals (not much hope to be honest but hey not to much effort either).
But now, thanks to your input, I will try to contact Copat (Torino) see if they are willing to help me out.

Maybe I'm a bit to much focussed on these connectors but that's because I succeeded in finding all other terminals/connectors and also a bit the result of my frustation I was not able to find a company/solution for newly anodizing all aluminium/alumnium parts (did really put a lot of effort into it .... but with no positive results).

By the way: I will test the Cerakote clear as a alternative for anodizing and will use Cerakote for the manifold and downpipes (C-7900, glacier titanium) and front forks (was not to happy with the powder coating results - thickness issues). :fart:

So again thanks and I will keep you informed!

Frank

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Ducati Paso 750 - 1989
Suzuki SV1000S - 2008
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 Post subject: Re: Wiring diagram - fault ?!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:28 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Sent a picture of this terminal to Eastern Beaver to see what he knows about it also these guys have all sorts of primary wire http://www.clipsandfasteners.com

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 Post subject: Re: Wiring diagram - fault ?!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:21 am
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Location: Belgium
model: 750 Paso
year: 1989
Thanks Higgy,

Today I've visited the Fiat dealer, he would dive into the matter.
Wait and see .....

To be honest, when I bought the Paso I'd never thought I would go into the restoration this intense!
It was meant as a: make sure it is a reliable bike .... omg :banghead:
One thing for sure: I will NEVER make the final calculation what it has cost me .... I don't want to know (it's a virus). :beer:

Frank

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Ducati Paso 750 - 1989
Suzuki SV1000S - 2008
Ducati Monster 796 abs - 2010


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