16 inch tyre campaign to Bridgestone

[customhead]

Hi guys,

I have prepared with the help of a mate of mine a document pleading Bridgestone to start making 16" tyre sets for Ducati's in both english and japanese. dont worry, the translation is excellent....

I also have access to the appropriate peoples emails at bridgestone as one of my Japanese mates used to be one of their tyre testers and is still sponsored by them.

I would like to get this out worldwide and ask as many people to sign it as possible, i was thinking thru club websites and forums.

the problem is I do not want the bridgestone tyre r and d boss getting a cupla thousand emails. I would like to present him with a couple of emails with a few thousand signatures instead.

I have also created a facebook page. this gives me one classic and one modern avenue to go down to obtain a level of support to put a good case forward to bridgestone.

So please! become a friend, post a picture, pass on the link or get some names on the document and post it back to my PM area etc and get the message out to all your mates and contacts.

Lets give them a strong message.

cheers

Sean

[customhead]

sorry, heres a link to the facebook page

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 2147568448


get on it!

by the way please understand this is not advertising etc
I just want the option of keeping 16's on our bikes

[paso750]

with which bike volumes and tire sales per year did you calculate ?
You know what a new tooling, r&d, approvals, retooling of the machinery, distribution and storage cost (variant costs etc) ?
If you`d calculate a business case with an appropriate sales margin as a requirement you won´t even get break even. Due to the low sales volumes (total and per year) the production numbers would have to be rather low otherwise it`s very likely many distributors would end up with old stock.
...
I don´t think this effort stands a chance (sorry) but it`s definetely good keeping on trying.
No intention to discourage, just being realistic.

G.

[customhead]

I realise the project may not come to fruition and volumes will be low, but I think someone has to give it a go and with modern social networking...well who knows?

Sean

ps, could someone repost on the PASO 750 side for me or am I able to do that?

[JWilliam]

It might be so that this will come to nothing but it isn't only the Paso series that is out of rubber. a good point and I hope it works. What do they expect us to do... throw an immaculate Bimota DB1 in the bin? I will follow this on Facebook.

[paso750]

it`s only about economical figures. No company cares what you do with your bike. They just want to make profit.
Not only was the number of bikes built using these size tires in the low thousands, but many don´t even exist anymore or found their way in storage and collections. From the ones that are still on the road only few are used on regular basis making a proper milage per year. Other than that there are alternatives even if not in original size. So even if you produce only 1.000 tires a year (which is very far from a usual production batch) it`s likely they will not all sell.
These are the arguments you will hear.
Sad but that´s how it is.

[plasmid]

1. Would rather petition Michelin / Pirelli (/ Metzler) who already have the tooling
and can produce tires with period correct tread patterns instead of the 'modern' pop.tart porno variant.

3. Bimota DB1 uses the same tires and it's one of the baddest classical Bimota's

2. Some people would rather use 100000000 years old Michelin's than join sleezebook.


0. Consider changing the I in the petition to WE - BIGGER BADDER SIMPLY SUPERIOR 2 the pop.tart Ispoon Isee generation

[plasmid]

Here's an edited version. My suggestion would be to drop it in one of the Online Petition services
and all who want to can add their name themselves. For example http://www.petitiononline.com/



- EDITED PETITION -


We are writing on behalf of all owners, riders, collectors and restorers of 16 inch wheeled Ducati and Bimota motorcycles.

For many years there has been a complete absence of 16” tyres on the market that fit our particular wheel sizes.
The specific tire sizes are 130/60-r16 Front and 160/60-r16 Rear.

These tires fit Ducati and Bimota motorcycles from the period 1987-1991.
They include some of the period's most iconic models:

the Ducati 750F1 series’ SP models Laguna Seca, Santamonica and Monjuich
the Ducati 851
the Ducati 750 Sport
the Ducati 750 and 906 Paso
the 1989 Ducati 400ss
the timeless Bimota DB1

These machines are rare, beautiful and much loved by the people who ride, race, restore and collect them.
Without any 16" tires being produced, their owners have invariably resorted to using mismatched tire brands
and sizes or converting their wheels to 17”, in the process destroying the bikes' originality and performance.

With Bridgestone’s continued worldwide success in racing and tire technology,
we petition you to endeavor to apply that success and technology to produce a modern set of 16" tires
to complement these wonderful and iconic machines and enable the tens of thousands of Ducati and Bimota
enthusiasts to keep their machines 'Original and on the Road' with Bridgestone tires.

Bridgestone will be rewarded with excellent brand loyalty and appreciation from Ducati and Bimota
owners, riders, collectors and restorers worldwide.


Sincerely,



- THE LIST of PETITIONERS -


Owner Model

G. Dan Ducati 750 Paso

[plasmid]

it`s only about economical figures. No company cares what you do with your bike. They just want to make profit.
Not only was the number of bikes built using these size tires in the low thousands, but many don´t even exist anymore or found their way in storage and collections. From the ones that are still on the road only few are used on regular basis making a proper milage per year. Other than that there are alternatives even if not in original size. So even if you produce only 1.000 tires a year (which is very far from a usual production batch) it`s likely they will not all sell.
These are the arguments you will hear.
Sad but that´s how it is.

G. - You're right about the big tire companies, but I think the D & B community would pay for original size tires.
So, I have an idea. Although I would prefer Michelin make some more.

[paso750]

it doesn`t really matter but it seems not all DB1s had 16". I`ve seen datasheets mentioning 18" rear and a differnt size 16" in the front.

plasmid there are no more moulds. I doubt Pirelli still has the ones of the MP7 as production stopped around 1990. According to the info I got Michelin scrapped theirs.

I talked to smaller companies, too. Ie Heidenau, a german company manufacturing mainly scooter tires and even some asian suppliers. The reply was always the same...

[plasmid]

I talked to smaller companies, too. Ie Heidenau, a german company manufacturing mainly scooter tires and even some asian suppliers. The reply was always the same...

What's the reply?

Did you get quotes?


I'd say it's doable.
People are dropping 200+ eur on a 'new' tire.

[paso750]

you`re kidding, right ?
Maxxis btw was another one I had talked to.

I posted this longer time ago

I personally would take a different approach and start of from production numbers of P750, 906, 750S, Bimota DB1 (and whatever other bike used this size - 851 tricolore ?!) and then just by rule of thumb reduce the total volume by let`s say estimated 40% (bikes that were crashed, scrapped, some may stand in collections etc). This should give a more realistic (and also bigger) figure.

G.

edit: (from Wikipedia)
"There were three road-going versions of the DB1:
DB1 1985-87 standard model. Red green and mostly pearl white bodywork. 453 made. Some 400 cc machines were made for Japan and are included in that number.
DB1S with freer exhausts and larger carburetors and no air cleaners. Same body colours as DB1 but with an "S" in the name. 63 made.
DB1SR with a very highly tuned engine, and different two-piece wheels made by Marvic/Akront. Same colours as the DB1 but mostly red. 153 made."
DB1 total produced 569

from Ducati 2-valve belt drive restauration guide:
total Paso 750 & 906 produced: 6.665
750 F1 Santamonica 204
750 F1 Laguna Seca 296
750 Sport (1988/89) 2.607

if I didn`t make a mistake there were 10.341 bikes produced using the same tire sizes.
Thinking that DB1 and the F1 models may not be moved a lot required sets per year may be not more than 3,5-4K. (which still seems a bit high for me. On the other side guys may ride more if they knew they can get new tires easily)

edit:
add
851 Strada (1988) 300
851 kit (1988) 200

Average tire sells will probably be not more than one set in 2 years as none of these bikes is ridden a lot.
If you show any manufacturer these numbers the discussion will end fast.

[plasmid]

you`re kidding, right ?
Maxxis btw was another one I had talked to.

Thanks for the numbers. No, I'm not kidding.

Did you get quotes?

Do you have contacts for the manufacturers you contacted?


Again, I'm not talking about big companies. I agree they could care less.

[paso750]

No, it never got to that point. Every inquiry was over when the volumes were on the table.
I have a product/project management backgroud so I know well how these things go. I can also understand very well that this cannot be profitable. Making the tires more expensive won`t help either as there are cheaper alternatives.

Note that tires need a homologation to even be allowed to roll on the street and this is not cheap either.

However, fingers crossed.

PS: I usually tried to contact someone from product management or sales dept. as sales always has interest in new opportunities. Mostly though you´ll have to go the way via the service dept. Some manufacturers websites have a specific contact list of persons not only customer support. If that didn´t help I called and asked my way through.

[plasmid]

No, it never got to that point. Every inquiry was over when the volumes were on the table.
I have a product/project management backgroud so I know well how these things go. I can also understand very well that this cannot be profitable. Making the tires more expensive won`t help either as there are cheaper alternatives.

Note that tires need a homologation to even be allowed to roll on the street and this is not cheap either.

However, fingers crossed.

PS: I usually tried to contact someone from product management or sales dept. as sales always has interest in new opportunities. Mostly though you´ll have to go the way via the service dept. Some manufacturers websites have a specific contact list of persons not only customer support. If that didn´t help I called and asked my way through.

Ok. I'll pm my phone nr in .de
so we can have a little chat about this if you want.

By the way, I'm talking about paying for the production, not
finding a manufacturer that wants to take on the project.
Obviously that would be good also.

Re: homologation - does every size have to be homologated or each model?

The figure I overheard re: mould is 50k USD.
If that's true I'd say it's feasible.

Best would be if Michelin donated the mould, but I'd say 0 chance of that happening.