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 Post subject: Possible to replace starter brushes w/o removing starter?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:22 am
Posts: 100
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Hi gents, well, the 906 won't start. Power gets to the starter (confirmed) but no sound from the starter - and it has started the bike less than 200 times since it was replaced with a brand new item.

I can get the first long bolt out of the right side of the starter, but I can't seem to get purchase on the left bolt!

From memory, my buddy did actually manage to get the back of the starter off so that the brushes could be replaced, and the starter inspected. But I'm buggered if I can figure out how he did it. I have removed the temperature sensor and the bolt below it, but I still can't get a spanner or a socket onto the head of that other bolt.

The failure mode was that periodically the starter would not operate. I'd then stick it in first gear,rock the bike a bit and then try again. Now all I get is clicks. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Possible to replace starter brushes w/o removing starter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:55 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:35 am
Posts: 1770
Location: Newzealand
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
I had a similar issue with my SS . I bought a new battery and when that didnt work I fitted new brushes to the starter, still no good ( symtoms were sluggish starter ) turns out it was the earth lead, or rather the terminal on the battery end . When checking for voltage to the starter dont be fooled by a "battery voltage " reading especially if your using an electronic/ digital meter. A crook soleniod can often connect well enough to trick a meter . Try putting a spanner across the solenoid terminals and see if the starter turns .The clicks mean that the armature and the coil in the solenoid are opperating , but does not mean the contacts are good. Do check all the earth terminals , and by check I mean undo all the bolts and clean the terminals and the various bits of the chasis/motor they bolt onto , check also the termination of the terminals ... ei where the terminals are fitted to the cables. Then do the same for all the positive cables/ terminations. If you still suspect the starter .. take it right off and dismantle ( marking end cap positions ) and check it out properly.I actually made up all new cables , both earth and positive using bigger cables and soldering on all the terminals . There are posts on this topic , and someone , cant remember who makes a kit for this . The factory cables are crap. I also ran a new cable from the battery earth to the motor ( rather than to the frame ) , bolted it to the rear cylinder intake manifold /head mounting bolt . Good luck

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 Post subject: Re: Possible to replace starter brushes w/o removing starter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:44 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Canberra, Australia
model: 750 Paso
year: 1987
Hi Mobius,

The vendor McTool mentioned is Motolectric. http://www.motolectric.com/makes/ducati.html
Very good kits to upgrade the starter circuit from Italian 80's quality to something more useful.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Possible to replace starter brushes w/o removing starter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:22 am
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Yep, I have the Motolectric starter kit installed already. I terminate the heavy negative strap onto the engine itself, and have a second heavy duty strap connecting the engine to the frame.

The starter kit really did make a huge difference to the way the bike started.

However, I don't ride often, and sometimes it takes several goes to get the thing started from cold. I always try to give the starter a good rest between start attempts, and I never crank the engine longer than 5-6 seconds.

I have put the battery on charge, with a charger/maintainer so I can ensure the battery has the full whack in it tomorrow when the auto-electrician arrives. I'll have him follow the list you kindly provided!

Perhaps enough current is not getting to the starter? But a 12 volt bulb shines brightly when I use the starter cable on it, and terminate the bulb on the starter itself.

I am hoping like hell that I do NOT have to remove the starter as that is a right prick of a job, even with a gear puller. I hate having to make a new gasket each time. ACK!

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 Post subject: Re: Possible to replace starter brushes w/o removing starter
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:38 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:35 am
Posts: 1770
Location: Newzealand
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Gear puller ? new gasket ? .... you really need that escape pod dont you :lol: :lol:.
For frequently ( hope not ) removed covers I make a gasket out of gasket paper ( 0.7mm thick ) and f2 glue one side ( usually to the cover ) and put a smear of hi temp grease ( copper slip ) on the other side. With a reasonable thickness of gasket paper there is some small amount of compressabillity , and the grease stops it from sticking . Usually when the cover is removed the gasket sticks to the cover ( f2 ) and releases from the case . I havent had one leak either

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 Post subject: Re: Possible to replace starter brushes w/o removing starter
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:22 am
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Yeah McTool, I DO need that escape pod: I have 8 thumbs and two fingers only. :)

We have diagnosed a faulty starter solenoid. Bridging it cranks the engine over like crazy.

I am immensely pleased that no mechanical work is required!

Now.... to find a new solenoid.... MS5A-181 ... Casbolts?

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 Post subject: Re: Possible to replace starter brushes w/o removing starter
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:32 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:35 am
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Location: Newzealand
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Why not try repco or super cheap ( or even the local bike wreaker ) another good ( cheap ) option is the local ride on mower shop . A solenoid is a solenoid and as long as it is 12 volt and physically fits there is no need to pay an extra 100 bucks just to get one with ducati written on the packet :)

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 Post subject: Re: Possible to replace starter brushes w/o removing starter
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:22 am
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Good idea. I'll need to replace the plug from the starter switch though. Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible to replace starter brushes w/o removing starter
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:00 am
Posts: 332
Location: Lower Hutt, New Zealand
model: 750 Paso
year: 1986
Mobius,
Pleased it is just the solenoid.
However, I am having the exact same problem, the solenoid just clicks when the starter button is pressed. Have bridged across the solenoid but still no go. This happens at the most inconvient time, as I was going away for a weekend ride on the P750 but had to use the Yamaha TRX850 in place. We did 702 kM over the weekend, perfect weather, fantastic roads, little traffic, only the Paso was missing.
Cheers,

Fraser.

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1980 Moto Morini 500 Sport
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 Post subject: Re: Possible to replace starter brushes w/o removing starter
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:22 am
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
THE BEAST LIVES :D

Well, it was a little tricky to get going as it has sat for 2 months. Does that tell you something about the summer we have had? Factoid: I've been off work since the middle of January.

Sorry your bike is on the off Fraser -it's always sad when stuff doesn't go.

I'm almost sorry I didn't buy a 4-pot Rice Burner - but then I hear the bike fire up, and see the thing reflected in a storefront window, and get lots of thumbs up from people in traffic. Then I'm damn glad I got a Ducati!

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