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 Post subject: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:21 pm
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Location: USA
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
So I got going on the light resto of my paso, cleaned the carb, checked the belts, changed the oil/plugs & fired her up. Well, had to use a jumper box because the only batt I had was a ballistic EVO that was in my husky 630, I had disconnected the headlamp so I would have more cranking power and to not kill the battery. Starts and idles fine but when you give it has it stumbles.

Went and bought a proper new AGM batt for it. Starts fine. Here's the thing, the battery light stays on, and if you honk the horn at idle it dies.

I checked/cleaned the ground near the shock, the one near the reg/rec and the one on the left frame spar (blue wire). Any ideas on why it would just die like that?

The bike has just been sitting in a garage for 8+ yrs, there's no critter damage and it's all complete.....stock except for the exhaust is from a 750 I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:18 am 
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Location: Broome, Western Australia
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1992
Put a multimeter across the battery and see what voltage it reads . Ignition off it should read around 12.5 to 13.5 volts. Start it up and let it idle. Battery volts will be less than before as it would have degraded slightly due to the starting current. Slow rev the bike up and by about 3000rpm it should be reading about 14.5volts, but no more than about 14.9volts. If all is good hit the horn button and see what happens.

The battery idiot light on sort of suggests the regulator may be shot, or at least a dodgy earth. The above battery volts will pretty much conform it.

Another thought is the LHS switch gear is knackered or the wiring to it. Unscrew it from the handle bar and see what happens. I haven't looked at the schematic, but the horn switch most likely has 12 volts on it. If when pressed it shorts the 12 volts to the handle bar, it could create enough of a voltage drop to kill the motor. I would have expected this to blow a fuse, but like I said, I haven't had a look at the schematic.

Cheers.

Nick.


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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:04 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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model: 907 I.E.
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I agree with Nick regarding checking the battery for charging.
Regarding the horn killing the ignition, a faulty ignition switch is a possibility. The ignition switches on the Paso series is well known for bad internal contacts.
The horn draws a lot of current so high resistance at the ignition switch contacts means the the voltage drops when the button is pushed. It could be dropping enough for the Digiplex to stop the sparks.
There is a wiring mod in the FAQ to fit a relay to take the load from the switch.

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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:21 pm
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Location: USA
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Ok, yeah I'd forgot to mention that I did check the battery while running. No change in voltage when revved. Also there are 3 wires coming out of the magneto, 2 yellow one red. The red wire seems to have some heat damage to the connector. Looking at the schematic that's the charging wire. I discinnected that wire & started the bike, same exact symptoms. (I should add that the horn is working, it's not the switch grounding as the horn blows...until the motor dies). In another attempt to diagnose the issue I disconnected the reg/rec and started the bike. Basically same symptoms, except the battery light was no longer illuminated. Im thinking either the reg/rec or the magneto is shot, or both. There's acid staining on the swingarm indicating there was an overcharging issue at some point. I guess I could disconnect the charging wire from the magneto and check it on the multimeter (AC, right?)......


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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:09 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Well you have confirmed that the battery isn't charging. It needs all 3 wires, the 2 yellow and the red to charge with that regulator. You should check the alternator for AC volts across the 2 yellows when the engine is running. The red wire is a centre tap, you should get a lesser voltages between either of the yellows and the red. If you're getting AC volts at about 15V / 1000 rpm across the 2 yellows the alternator is probably OK. In which case you need a replacement regulator.

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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:00 pm 
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The three wires from the Alternator are yellow (2) and red. The two yellows are power output. The red is for the charge (idiot) light. Don't connect the red to an unknown rectifier, it will melt wires and is a 'wrong' connection. A new reg/rec might not have a terminal for the red wire - don't worry it can be left off. The standard Energis rectifier is a truly nasty piece of kit, any replacement is bound to be better. For the lonely, an easy mod will have your charge indicator working again if the reg/rec doesn't have the terminal.

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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:34 pm 
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model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Alright, got to fiddle again for a bit. @5v across the two yellows >1000rpm. So the magneto is toast?


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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:27 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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JWilliam wrote:
The three wires from the Alternator are yellow (2) and red. The two yellows are power output. The red is for the charge (idiot) light.

I beg to differ. The red wire is not for the charge light. This is a diagram which shows charging circuit within the regulator. You will see that the alternator winding is centre tapped at the red wire which provides the -ve connection to the bike inside the regulator.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:35 pm 
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That's weird, because if I put the + lead of my multimeter to the red wire coming out of the magneto, and the - lead to a ground I get 12v DC......


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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:02 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Well there is no way that any of the leads from the alternator are going to produce 12v DC. Unless the regulator is faulty and there is leakage back through it from the battery.

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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:27 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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model: 906 Paso
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Quote:
Well there is no way that any of the leads from the alternator are going to produce 12v DC. Unless the regulator is faulty and there is leakage back through it from the battery.




Sure you want to keep that statement Derek :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:29 pm 
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Location: Broome, Western Australia
model: 907 I.E.
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FasYankee wrote:
That's weird, because if I put the + lead of my multimeter to the red wire coming out of the magneto, and the - lead to a ground I get 12v DC......

I wouldn't expect that to happen? According to the circuit diagram the red wire (the CT) is connected to ground. Can you track down where the other end of the red wire goes off to? If it was me, and it went to an earth, I would go to the nearest earth point, which is under the tank.

A moot point, but the wires go off to an alternator not a magneto. I know I will be caned mercilously here but an Alternator gives out AC volts which is then rectified to get DC volts. Magneto's usually hang out on lawnmowers, and generate a pulse that goes direct to the spark plug to make it all work.

Cheers.

Nick.


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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:48 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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higgy wrote:
Quote:
Well there is no way that any of the leads from the alternator are going to produce 12v DC. Unless the regulator is faulty and there is leakage back through it from the battery.




Sure you want to keep that statement Derek :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes, I'm quite happy with that statement :)
Look at the diagram I posted above. If one of the SCRs was faulty, with the red wire disconnected it would be possible to measure a +ve DC voltage between the red wire and ground.

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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:15 pm 
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Location: USA
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Stator? Lol ok. The red wire goes into the sheath with the two yellows and then into the cover on the left side of the motor, which I have not removed yet. The weird thing about all this is that my uncle told me the bike was running fine the last time he rode it (albeit about a decade ago). The bike has low mileage and is basically 100% stock, in a previous post someone mentioned the ignition having poor connectors? Is this the ignition (key) switch or the right switchgear starter-on/off switch?

I could understand that connectors four corrode but how could a reg/rec or stator toast itself just sitting......bike didn't even have a battery in it for that time.
I looked at the FAQ and breezed through the the schematics for the addition of relays, those look like a good idea, once I get this thing running correctly I'm going to do those mods as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Horn kills the motor?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:11 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Yeah ( Derek :) ) if the red wire wasn't connected to earth ...... but it is and I reckon if that scr shorted it would take 1/2 a nanosecond for something to blow , if your lucky :?: you might see the flash reflecting off the workshop walls and a mushroom cloud making its way across the ceiling but you'd have to be quick :D

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