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 Post subject: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:00 am
Posts: 80
Location: Ft. Wayne, Indiana
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1992
Hey Guys,

I was doing my spring tune-up and decided to check on the clutch since it had been barking a little more than normal. This stock clutch has just over 5000 miles on it and the drive plates looked like they needed re-facing. [Last season I had gotten caught in a couple of rain storms and the steal plates had some oxidation.] So, I broke out the scotch-brite wheel and my die grinder and cleaned up all the drive plates and pressure plate. While I was in there I decided to experiment with the clutch pack. I remember not to long ago I had read somewhere on the net about being able to quiet the clutch pack and make its operation smoother by adding another friction plate (or two) to the back of the clutch basket. After trying to locate more detailed info on this I was unsuccessful so I thought I would experiment with the clutch and share my findings with all of you.

First, the clutch reface R&R of the drive plates is easy to do and seems to help make engagement smoother.
Image

Second, I recorded the order of plate installation as I could not find any reference to the 907ie clutch pack order in any archives or anywhere on the net. Below you will find the exact order of installation and what I found to work extremely well.
Image

Third, I have now put 200 miles on this clutch since I installed it last week and I am blown away by the excellent performance of this new clutch arrangement. The clutch is actually quiet under drive/engagement and only makes its tamburine jingle when the clutch lever is pulled. Excellent engagement with no slipping or groaning.

I have included the following videos for you to see and listen to the clutch update compared to before I did the modification and after.

After: http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j293/seviston/Duc%20907/Ducati%20Clutch%20Job/?action=view&current=PICT0198.flv

After: http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j293/seviston/Duc%20907/Ducati%20Clutch%20Job/?action=view&current=PICT0197.flv

Before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1popG9td1I&feature=related

My clutch kit combination put together from Ducati factory and Barnett plates:

1 Spring plate 1.5mm
8 Drive Plates 2.0mm
7 Friction Disks 3.0mm

1 additional 3.0mm Barnett FRICTION Disc installed at the back of clutch basket.
Image

That is a clutch pack of 16 discs that equal about 38.50mm max clutch pack thickness with 1 additional 3.0mm friction disc at the back of clutch basket. *= 17 TOTAL clutch plates*

Order of disks from the back of basket to the front of the clutch pack (clocking each drive plate 1/25 turn using notches) ending at the pressure plate:

1) *Extra Friction Disk at the BACK of basket

2) Drive Plate 12 0’clock

3) Drive Plate 3 0’clock

4) Friction Plate

5) Spring Plate 9 0’clock

6) Friction Plate

7) Drive Plate 12 0’clock

8) Friction Plate

9) Drive Plate 3 0’clock

10) Friction Plate

11) Drive Plate 6 0’clock

12) Friction Plate

13) Drive Plate 9 0’clock

14) Friction Plate

15) Drive Plate 12 0’clock

16) Friction Plate

17) Drive Plate 3 0’clock

Pressure Plate

_________________
1992 907ie Beauty. Custom high pipes, Pro Italia chip, Barnett performance clutch, Corbin Seat, Stainless brake lines. 35,000 miles. Owned since 1993.


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:00 am
Posts: 133
Location: Queenstown ,Tasmania
Top effort , should be able to drag off a few at the lights now! I reckon they will be left at the lights due to wondering ,
" HMMMM,....... haven't seen those pipes on a Ducati before, must be one of the new models, it looks real modern and tidy."

Thanks on the clutch info.
Marty


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:00 am
Posts: 80
Location: Ft. Wayne, Indiana
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1992
gail wrote:
Top effort , should be able to drag off a few at the lights now! I reckon they will be left at the lights due to wondering ,
" HMMMM,....... haven't seen those pipes on a Ducati before, must be one of the new models, it looks real modern and tidy."

Thanks on the clutch info.
Marty



Thanks for the kind words Marty. I do like my pipes, you can read about the build on them here: http://forums.ducatipaso.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2550

As for the clutch I just got back from another ride today and am still in amazement about the new clutch action. For such a simple modification I am surprised that Ducati or the after market have not come up with the fix. Of course if we all have perfectly functioning clutches I guess it eliminates the need for us to keep buying new clutches every 10K miles from the dealer. It seems as if they do this to keep some of the Ducati Mystique in place. Let's face it we all love Ducati for the sounds that they make, clutch, exhaust and valves. I especially LOVE MY DUCATI DRY CLUTCH, I just wanted it to work a little better. Now for the moment it seems I have the perfect Ducati 907 world. Let's see if my new found clutch action lasts?

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1992 907ie Beauty. Custom high pipes, Pro Italia chip, Barnett performance clutch, Corbin Seat, Stainless brake lines. 35,000 miles. Owned since 1993.


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 320
Location: Nottingham, UK
model: 906 Paso
year: 1989
Each 3 months I remove my clutch plates and clean the brass grip plates with wire wool. I leave the steel friction plates because they are cleaned during use. I pump out the slave cylinder to its maximum and clean the exposed cylinder with the wool before smearing with lithium grease and returning it to its position. I oil the slave cylinders top bearing with a light oil. When I reasemble the clutch plates I search for the alignment 'dot' on the clutch basket and begin to put in the plates, the steel friction plates all have a dimple on the outside and every one is placed with the dimple nearest the alignment dot. There are thick and thin friction plates, the thick ones are pushed in first (between grip plates) and the thinner ones are last to go in. The retaining circlip is last to go on and the circlip gap is also aligned to the clutch basket 'dot'. Does this sound alright?

I quite like the 'jangle' when I use the clutch though.


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:00 am
Posts: 80
Location: Ft. Wayne, Indiana
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1992
JWilliam wrote:
Each 3 months I remove my clutch plates and clean the brass grip plates with wire wool. I leave the steel friction plates because they are cleaned during use. I pump out the slave cylinder to its maximum and clean the exposed cylinder with the wool before smearing with lithium grease and returning it to its position. I oil the slave cylinders top bearing with a light oil. When I reasemble the clutch plates I search for the alignment 'dot' on the clutch basket and begin to put in the plates, the steel friction plates all have a dimple on the outside and every one is placed with the dimple nearest the alignment dot. There are thick and thin friction plates, the thick ones are pushed in first (between grip plates) and the thinner ones are last to go in. The retaining circlip is last to go on and the circlip gap is also aligned to the clutch basket 'dot'. Does this sound alright?

I quite like the 'jangle' when I use the clutch though.


Sounds right to me for a Paso 750 JWilliam, definitely good work. I too love the "jangle" of the dry clutch. The 907 clutch design however, is quite different from the 750 Paso in its design. The slave is on the left side of the motor for one. Also, the new Ducati factory clutch kits have all the same steel plate thickness now except for the spring plate which is thinner by .5mm.

For this reason I am not sure the clutch mod that I have used would work the same for the Paso 750 or 906 as I am unfamiliar with their exact design. But my sense is that it might even though the 750 clutch is designed differently from the 907. It depends on the size of the clutch basket in the other Paso models. If the basket is the same (?) it should work. I think one of the keys to this mod with the 907 aside from the additional friction disk is to get the clutch pack as close to 38.5mm thickness as possible. By doing so it tightens the clutch pack up so that it engages easier without a lot of chatter, slipping and vibration, which is what causes the moaning and groaning under engagement that we are all so familiar with.

One of the by products of tightening the clutch pack is that it is quieter when the clutch is engaged and as a result the clutch does not sound like it is beating itself and the basket to death. Now this is not to say that the clutch mod does not make that Ducati signature "jangle", it does. But only when the clutch lever is pulled and the plates are disengaged and freed up to jingle back and forth. Once the lever is released the clutch pack tightens back up and is quiet.

My impression of riding with this setup after 300 miles is extremely positive. In fact it is awesome! Besides all of the clutch benefits of smooth engagement, no slipping, barking, or talking back I have found something else. I have once again found the symphany of the Ducati Desmo. Now I hear everything that is good about Ducati. I hear the wonderful motor chuffing along, I hear the Desmo valve gear, the "jangle" of the wonderfull dry clutch and the throbbing, thunderous exhaust.

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1992 907ie Beauty. Custom high pipes, Pro Italia chip, Barnett performance clutch, Corbin Seat, Stainless brake lines. 35,000 miles. Owned since 1993.


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 320
Location: Nottingham, UK
model: 906 Paso
year: 1989
Truly you appreciate all things that mean Ducati.


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:41 am 
Top notch info. Thanks kindly.
Mine is a wee bit noisy these days. I think a Saturday afternoon
and some work like you folks have done and described will work wonders!


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:32 am
Posts: 6
Location: Lehigh Valley, Penna. USA
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1993
Ace job with the clutch solution...certainly will try it. Kudos on the best sounding set of pipes for the 907ie that I ever heard, great look too !!! Very slick, well done.


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:40 am
Posts: 279
Location: Canberra, Australia
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1991
Gday there,

Did you have the Barnett pack in prior to your research?

My current clutch pack came from a 1098, everything is the same in terms of pack thickness and order of plates AND the slippage we all seem to suffer from.

I have flurted with trying stronger springs but the current set is within tolerances so havent gotten to that just yet.

Your comments on the Barnett pack would be appreciated.

Cheers

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Jaffa
'91 907ie (RED)
'78 900 Darmah (RED) (now BLACK and lookin' goooooood)
'82 900 Mike Hailwood Replica
_________________________________
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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:00 am
Posts: 80
Location: Ft. Wayne, Indiana
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1992
Jaffa wrote:
Gday there,

Did you have the Barnett pack in prior to your research?

My current clutch pack came from a 1098, everything is the same in terms of pack thickness and order of plates AND the slippage we all seem to suffer from.

I have flurted with trying stronger springs but the current set is within tolerances so havent gotten to that just yet.

Your comments on the Barnett pack would be appreciated.

Cheers


Yes, I have had TWO Barnett clutches over the years with moderate results. The clutch always being grabby and loud with harsh engagement after a few thousand miles. I purchased the Factory clutch kit again and after 5000 miles put the used Barnett fiber disk in the back of the clutch pack. It made all the difference to smooth engagement. I have over 6K miles on this setup now (11K miles on whole clutch) and it still works perfectly. I did this mod in 2008. Have Fun!

_________________
1992 907ie Beauty. Custom high pipes, Pro Italia chip, Barnett performance clutch, Corbin Seat, Stainless brake lines. 35,000 miles. Owned since 1993.


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:08 am
Posts: 221
Location: Melbourne Vic, Australia
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1991
my .02c worth.

I use a MPL slipper clutch and this has a specific order of plates and a specific amount you measure after the clutch is assembled.
I use a Barnett pack that slipped after a maybe a thousand kms.
I disassembled and found the fibre pads a bit burnt/glazed. I cleaned them with 400sandpaper and brake clean to remove the oily stuff and asssumed I didn't clean them properly when I first installed them. Since they have been perfect.

Also there is a measurement I must use of around 1.3mm, that is the gap from clutch out to clutch in.
This with the MPL is how much space you need so the clutch does not drag when disengaged, or clutch lever in.

I always thought the jangle comes from the basket wearing, so the "tangs" on the clutch plates move back and forth against the basket.

I used a new basket with the slipper and its very quiet ....still.

Just a point, on Foxtel [our cable provider in OZ] they had a motorcycle program on the best safety items on a bike. I presumed it would have been ABS, but nope, they reckon a slipper clutch is the number 1 safety item you can fit to a bike!!

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Nigel

91 907IE - full restoration
91 907IE Red, Wilbers, Staintune Conti, Corbin,
MPL Slipper,Ceramic exhaust

Lambretta LI150 S3
87 928S4

http://www.paolopirozzi.com/it/ - around the world on a Multistrada

907, its not a bike , its a cult


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:35 am
Posts: 1668
Location: Newzealand
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
Yeah , it is a great mod Donaldoduck , one I have advocated for ages , I just dont understand why it took you a day and a half to put it together :D

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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:21 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:27 am
Posts: 604
Location: Melbourne Australia
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1992
feels like I've been missing out on something...my bike has been too reliable, never had the clutch ass apart and it works just fine, smooth gear changes and all...touch wood! ;)
I dont even know what a slipper clutch is, but if it makes the bike safer, I better investigate :thumbup:

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Cheers Claude.

...long live the square framed duc!

'92 907...numero 2046
'92 851...in progress


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:08 am
Posts: 221
Location: Melbourne Vic, Australia
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1991
Claude, all it does is on a downshift it allows some slip in the clutch plates to prevent wheellock up. Also may prevent an engine over rev. Most useful in the wet.
It does this by using, in my MPL unit, 12 ball bearings on ramps that allow the presure plate to rotate up the ramp, therefore slipping the clutch a bit. Thats the best I can explain it. :smoke:

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Nigel

91 907IE - full restoration
91 907IE Red, Wilbers, Staintune Conti, Corbin,
MPL Slipper,Ceramic exhaust

Lambretta LI150 S3
87 928S4

http://www.paolopirozzi.com/it/ - around the world on a Multistrada

907, its not a bike , its a cult


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 Post subject: Re: How I refinished and rearrange 907 clutch pack
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:33 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:27 am
Posts: 604
Location: Melbourne Australia
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1992
how much did that cost Nigel? Im not an aggressive rider, not sure if I need it...do you still get enough engine braking? :dunno:

btw: went for the ride with the DOCV today, the roads were wet but the weather was nice, good day to try out my new tyres, a vast improvement over the old rubber :thumbup:
the old iron horse went really well, and kept up to the modern machinery...now she"ll be resting for a few weeks, oil change, and a good service :thumbup:


Image

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Cheers Claude.

...long live the square framed duc!

'92 907...numero 2046
'92 851...in progress


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