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 Post subject: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:01 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: Scotland
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1994
Having had troubles with my voltage regulator, which turned out to be the connector from the alternator, last year fitted a MOSfet voltage regulator from a Multistrada 1200. It 3-phase but I just left the other connector with nothing connected and it woks fine. It's rather larger than the original regulator though and I had to fit it on the outside of the aluminium plate that it mounts on along with the ignition amplifiers. Clearance was a little tight so I had to cut back a couple of the cooling fins to clear the mirror mounting screws and the indicator wires. It has plenty of spare capacity though so I don't think overheating will be a problem.
One of the drawbacks to using a modern regulator is that you lose the charge warning light function and I didn't like having a dash light that didn't work. To sort this problem I used a charge warning light from http://www.improvingclassicmotorcycles.com/products.htm
Since the the warning light on the 907 (and all other Ducatis) is switched on the earth side I needed a positive earth kit fitted between the warning light pink wire and ground. The guy who sell the kits was very keen to help and supplied the kit ready to fit with instructions for earth side switching, as he called it.
Turn the ignition on and the light flashes twice to tell you the unit has powered up correctly and then the light stays on. If instead it repeatedly shows two short flashes followed by one long flash, the battery is flat and needs charging
Start the engine and the light goes out when the alternator is detected as working and producing sufficient power to cope with demand and keep the battery charged
If the light repeatedly shows one short flash followed by a long pause then this is warning you that the charge regulation system has failed and the battery is being overcharged.
Quite clever and more than just a voltage controlled switch and for only £15.88 + delivery I'm very happy with it.

Image

I also managed to fit a slimline HID ballast where the old regulator used to with an H4 dipping HID unit in the headlamp. So i've vastly improved the lights as well as the efficiency and reliability of the charging circuit.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:55 pm
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Location: SW Scotland
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year: 1992
How do you find the HID light Derek ?
I've always been put off by the moving mirror thing in the H4 ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:07 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
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screw the HID, LED is much easier on our thermally challenged stators. Shindengen regulators are the way to go and it is very important to relocate any regulator into a constant airstream.

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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:09 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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black907 wrote:
How do you find the HID light Derek ?
I've always been put off by the moving mirror thing in the H4 ones.

I find it surprisingly good Robbie. A much brighter whiter light than the OEM halogens and it puts a lot more light on the road where you need it. I fitted a 4,300K one as I've tried other colour temperatures in the past. 6,000K is too blue as our eyes are most sensitive to yellow light. Good for being seen but shit for seeing with. I have 5,000K units on my MTS. Less blue but the same goes for them, they are more of a compromise.
There is no moving mirror, the lamp unit is mounted inside a larger housing and a tiny solenoid tilts the light source to move it from dip to main beam positions. I was a bit dubious too but these things are so cheap on eBay now I thought I'd give it a try.

higgy wrote:
screw the HID, LED is much easier on our thermally challenged stators

The HID is only 35W as opposed to the 55W of the halogen, so is a worthwhile reduction in current load.
While LED headlamps would be what I'd aim for they are not yet available as a replacement for a twin filament H4 bulb and possibly never will be. The current LED headlamp units are still very expensive and have bulky cooling fans on the back of them which probably wouldn't present a problem on a Paso but would be difficult to install in many bike applications.

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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:50 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Yes they cost around 150US but check these out, My Harley friends swear by them

https://www.lifetimeledlights.com/products/category/headlights



BTW if you lower the electrical load without switching to a non shunt type regulator you risk overheating your stator more. Far as I know Shindengren makes one and there is one other campfire or something like that

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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:51 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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The H4 LEDs appear to work with 2 CREE LEDs, one for dip beam and presumably both on for main beam. I'll wait until the price comes down considerably before giving them go though.

Lowering the electrical load just means the regulator (if it's a shunt type) has to work harder to burn off the extra power. With all shunt regulators the stator is working flat out all the time. Series regulators are few and far between.
Here is a bit about the Shindengen Mosfet regulators. http://www.roadstercycle.com/Shindengen%20Mosfet%20Regulator%20about.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:48 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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I think higgy posted this link a while back
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/80-hall-wis ... blems.html

I like that charging warning light specially the one with the colour LED. If I didn`t have a voltmeter installed already ...
Did you install it in the instrument panel ? If the original bulb socket was modified a bit (removing the contacts) it could probably take the new LED.


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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:07 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
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Quote:
Lowering the electrical load just means the regulator (if it's a shunt type) has to work harder to burn off the extra power. With all shunt regulators the stator is working flat out all the time. Series regulators are few and far between.



not exactly there is a thing call hysteresis


Shindegren will sell you either one

I got mine from this guyhttp://www.easternbeaver.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:02 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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He doesn't seem to sell regulators, only fitting kits. The FH012 which is shown on his site is the one I used.

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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:56 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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http://roadstercycle.com/


sorry wrong link

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If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:27 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Ah! That's better. The SH775 regulator is the one to go for for series regulation. I must confess I wasn't aware of that regulator.
I take your point about hysteresis losses and the FH regulators are no different from any other shunt regulator in this respect. Obviously with a series regulator there will be (most of the time) less current through the stator windings and less heat generated by hysteresis losses which should give the stator an easier life. I'll keep an eye out for a used series regulator to fit in future. Interesting that they are fitted by Polaris to their quads.

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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:44 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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http://www.compufire.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=16

This is the other Series type regulator that is currently available

Quote:
The COMPU-FIRE® voltage regulators have series type circuitry which allows both the stator and regulator to operate at a lower temperature by controlling the stator output. When the battery reaches full charge, the stator output is switched off by the regulator. The output voltage of the regulator is calibrated to meet the charging requirements of modern maintenance free batteries. The regulators are available in a chrome billet or black finned case


Image

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If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
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92 907ie


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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:50 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
model: 906 Paso
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The other thing to remember is that shunt type regulators run cooler when run under full load as do the stators.
decreasing electrical load as you do when adding LED type bulbs will cause both the regulator and stator to run much hotter. This is of course contrary to what most peoples understanding of charging systems is but true none the less. :banghead:



The more current the regulator has to dump to ground and all shunt type regulators dump the unused current to ground the hotter it will run and the shorter its life will be :wacko:



Like G I also went with an LED voltage gauge, easy to install and I prefer to know exactly whats is going across the battery rather than depend on an idiot light, even a smart idiot light

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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:01 pm 
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model: 907 I.E.
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Hey Derek,

I'm copying your set up for my 907 that finally blew it's "ducati energia" regulator after 27K km's. (albeit with a FH020AA)
All is reasonably straight forward, but I still want to ask your opinion on following things:


1. Negative output: straight to the mounting bolt, or a (superfluous) wire to the battery neg to improve mass connections between these two quite vital elements?

2. Switched 12V for the charge light unit: where dit you take this? There are plenty places (eg horn..), but I was wondering if you found one ready for the lucar connector.

3. What did you do with the brown wire? It seems the Shindengen doesn't need this external 12V. Did you use it for the switched 12V mentioned in "2."? I'd think it might be possible, but on the other hand: it's not just switched, but run through a relais and the ECU...



If you are not derek: feel free to give your opinion too, ofcourse.. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Updating the voltage regulator
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:00 am 
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Hi Kioors
Kioors wrote:
1. Negative output: straight to the mounting bolt, or a (superfluous) wire to the battery neg to improve mass connections between these two quite vital elements?

I ran a wire to threaded hole on the frame in the vicinity of the steering head. I can't remember exactly, I'd need to take the bodywork off to look.

Kioors wrote:
2. Switched 12V for the charge light unit: where dit you take this? There are plenty places (eg horn..), but I was wondering if you found one ready for the lucar connector.

3. What did you do with the brown wire? It seems the Shindengen doesn't need this external 12V. Did you use it for the switched 12V mentioned in "2."? I'd think it might be possible, but on the other hand: it's not just switched, but run through a relais and the ECU...


I used the brown wire for the switched 12V. The relay is fed straight from the battery and it's output supplies the ECU, injectors and pumps as well as the old regulator. The only slight down side is that the charge warning light goes out if you turn the kill switch to off.
I cut the Lucar connector off and fitted a bullet to connect to the brown wire.

Cheers

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