ducatipaso.org

Finnpaso wrote:Paso is much better invest

Antti,
I can't believe it, you also are starting to talk like a stockbroker....

I don't think you will do the same thing when you will have to check the valves' clearance.
:funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny:

Ciao

The advantage to the Paso is that I believe the values on them have hit an all-time low and won't get any lower. When running examples can be bought at $1200 or less (if you happen to be in the right place at the right time - I missed out on a 907ie for $1100 in running and rideable condition by two hours), you can't go wrong buying now, as I believe they will also go up in price. Enough to be a worthy "investment"?....I don't know.

Why did I buy my Paso?.......it is about the cheapest Ducati out there, if you want to have multiple Ducatis in your collection. It is definitely the cheapest Ducati when you look at models with full-fairings on it. My recollection of the Paso when it came out?.....everyone bad-mouthed it for looking too "Japanese". It was compared a lot in looks to the Honda Hurricane (CBR) and many old-timer, Ducati "purists" have never accepted the Paso as a Ducati...it's a Cagiva. Many dealerships still use the Paso as a bike to crack jokes about as to what Ducati should have never had their name associated with. The full-fairing that covered the frame, and a square-tube, instead of a round-tube frame were the two largest negatives that were often cited.....but, there are many people who fell in love with the bike when it first came out. I have a coworker that was in high-school when the Paso was introduced, and he always wanted one (but bought BMW's instead).

Will the Paso be a collectible bike that will bring a premium? Maybe. I think ANY Ducati before the Paso has become collectible, and the Paso will be sure to follow, but the end price may or may not justify the money invested and the amount of time you have to sit on the bike to make it seem worth your effort.

My rule of thumb with a bike it to buy it to ride. I get my return on my investment in smiles. If I happen to be able to sell the bike for more than it was bought for, all my smiles had no amount of money associated to them. If I was into my bike for the money, though, I'd have sold my $6600 Harley for $15,000 in 1995. Instead, I've ridden it through 44 US States, two Canadaian Provinces, and into Mexico. That money could NEVER replace the memories I have with that bike.

For production numbers, look here....

http://forums.ducatipaso.org/viewtopic. ... opic&t=187


Edit - Timing is everything.....remember the stock market crash of '87 when everyone started moving their investments into old Ferarris?.....it brought up the price of the old Corvettes and muscle cars, to only have that market crash pretty good shortly afterwards when the stock market started doing better. There were many people selling their $120k '67 Corvettes in the early and mid 90's at HUGE loses. I remember many $70k+ big-block Chevelles being sold at $20k-$30k. That market is back on the upswing, but there were a lot of people who lost thier asses on their cars. You just need to hope that there is a huge climb in prices and sell at the peak.........this coming from a guy who owned a '69 Corvette convertible (numbers-matching) who only paid $7500 for it....and who's father has a fuel-injected, 1960 Corvette that was bought for $2500 (he still has it and is slowly restoring it to a numbers-matching car).....yes, that is twenty-five HUNDRED dollars.

Thanks for the input. Aren't you of Vicki's paso fame? How is that coming along?

I know that the Paso isn't the most collectable of them all. However it takes a Ducati purest to know which is. IMHO the Paso is the bike, as I read time and time again here that "I've always wanted one" is one the minds of many in the general motorcycling public. As I said prior, it was far more a marketing success than anything else. It's name exceeded anything else it ever was. If you look at the ebay links I sent prior, a 78 parallel twin brought $5400. What does a purest say about the P twin? Hell, what does Ducati say? (a disaster). A Ferrari purset may turn his/her nose down at a 86 308, but where will it be in 20 years? Not the most collectable of them all, but surely it's at it's low ebb too. To the non purest, how do they see the 308? How will they see it in 20 years? How much will they spend?

I've paid 3G's for this one with 5300 miles. I believe that with about $200 worth of supplies and about 30 hours of my time, I'll have one of the nicest and lowest mileage Pasos in the US. Thanks for the production links, I had actually came across it earlier. 55 red non-cali 88's , 400 total for the year, about 2500 total imported. I'm guessing that half are crashed or in junkyards. That would leave about 1200-1500 or so or 30 per state. How many of those have 5000 miles? Without going to a club meet how long do you have to ride before you see another one?

Where will that put me in 10 years? (like the 78 Ptwin). I believe you are absolutely right that we are at the bottom of the market. I don't think there's anything made in 86-88 that's at its peak, almost all would be at the bottom or near so.

I'm a pretty kean observer of the industry as a whole. I suspect that the Paso is viewed more favorably in the industry as a whole than by Ducati purest. Could it be I'm seeing the forest through the trees? In any way shape or form I won't lose money. There is more collectable motorcycles out there, I've always known that. This wasn't at the top of my list. Could I make a better investment? Sure, but would it be as fun?Is it the worst I could make? Doubtful since I'd make about $120 per year on a savings account.

The purest may look down upon it, but tell me what else is so unique, so different from all Ducatis? The only one with square tubes? The only one with full coverage body? Will Astons, Lambos etc. be worth less overtime because some big corp owned them at one point?

In the mean time I'll have fun restoring it, learning about Ducatis, and riding it. But keep an eye on their values, they will only go up from here.

bf-fly wrote:Aren't you of Vicki's paso fame? How is that coming along?

Yes, that's me...the one fighting the $900, non-running wonder that was so screwed up that I believe a group of monkeys reassembled her. :laugh: I still think it will be running and on the road in $2200 or less, and will be in better shape than any going for the same price, currently. It'll probably take me a year+ when I was originally thinking 3-months and simply rebuilding the carbs. :ugh:

Over the weekend, I finally put the front wheel back on it. The whole front end is back together, with the toughest part finding an alternative for the obsolete seals in the steering head. I'm hoping to update with another page in the next couple of days. I've solved my dilemma of the rusty gas tank with a shell of a Paso that I picked up for free...

http://members.aol.com/TBoling125/pile_of_paso.html

Now, I'm debating on doing as planned with removing the swingarm and rear suspension for inspection or skipping it, running some fuel line, and starting her up....I hate the thought of cutting a corner, though.

bf-fly wrote:55 red non-cali 88's , 400 total for the year, about 2500 total imported. I'm guessing that half are crashed or in junkyards. That would leave about 1200-1500 or so or 30 per state. How many of those have 5000 miles? Without going to a club meet how long do you have to ride before you see another one?

There's probably even less of them than that, still in running condition, as the "in" thing these days is to part them out on eBay....even when they are in perfectly good running and rideable condition. I have a strong feeling that the one that I picked up in July would have turned out that way. Far too much was wrong with it for most "normal" people to want to attempt to mess with it...I'm a glutton for self-torture.....I'm trying my best to "save" it from being parted out.

What REALLY turns my stomach is someone parting out an 851/888 that just needs a little TLC to be saved because it is worth more in parts. If I had the money, I would have bought one that was two hours away from here. It went for under $4000, was rideable, just had cosmetic damage, and is currently being parted out.

Tell you the truth, the last Paso on the road I saw was last summer, and I believe it was the one that I missed being able to buy for $1100 (the Paso 907ie). Before that, it was at a Toys for Tots run in either '99 or '00. I've gone to a couple of Ducati rallies through US Desmo ( http://www.usdesmo.com ), and have yet to see a Paso. The last rally did have an old Bevelhead and two 851 bikes show up, though. The only other one I've seen locally is that 7000-mile, blue 1988 at a local Suzuki dealer for $3000......If it was in better shape I would have considered buying it instead of my $900 project bike, but, despite the low miles, it would need to be torn down and inspected, too....especially the hack-job wiring that was done to it (it would be a stretch to give them $1800 for it in its current condition).


BTW - Yes, the Ferarri 308 really is NOT a desireable Ferarri, especially in Europe. It's pretty much an entry-level Ferarri. They have the reputation of being slow, heavy, and not handle well compared to other Ferarris. They hit rock-bottom in the market about 10 years ago when you could find them in the $18k-$26 range. They are slowly climbing back up into the $25k-$35k range I've been watching these for years, as I always figured I'd get one, if I ever bought a Ferarri......I decided to buy Ducatis, instead.....I absolute LOVE a 348, though ($45k-$65k).

Good luck with Vicki's Paso. I'll be using your photos for reference.

Probably the best part of the one I'm buying is the origional owner was a Doctor, put 1000 miles on it, then parked it in his basement as a conversation piece for 10 years. Outside of a few minor scrapes in easily repaired spots, the paint is immaculate, emblems too. A buffer and hand polish and it should look fantastic. I had asked on another thread about OEM paint codes/colors, if you have any info I'd appreciate it. The stock exhaust cans are stained, and some of the frame color is a little rough.

I took is for a 2 mile ride, seemed OK, though I expect misc. issues. Most I can handle for myself but some I'll need professional help. I few hours of TLC and I'll have a nice runner though.

I do know lots of tricks on cosmetics, If I can help in anyway please ask.

Example. I saw you polished up the F-1's with 600 grit. have you done anything after that?

There's probably even less of them than that, still in running condition

I was being generous/pesimistic. I suspect the number may be under 1000. Then under 6000 miles? I would think that drops under 100. 100% origional? 50? less? Where will that stand in 10-20 years?

bf-fly wrote:Example. I saw you polished up the F-1's with 600 grit. have you done anything after that?

I just hit them with the 600-grit to see if they'd clean up. I haven't touched them since. I was thinking that they were aluminum cans and stainless steel pipes, but this other set I have has a LOT of rust on the pipes, so I'm not too sure, now (I haven't tried to clean the second set, yet).

I'm not too sure what I want for a finish, so I haven't touched them. I know I do NOT want them a high polish, so I'm not going to buff them out. Other than this, I'm not too sure. I had thought going the bead-blasting and clear-coating route for a satin finish, or flat or gloss black, but that'll be a decision once I get it running.

Also along the lines fo cosmetics, I don't know if I want to use the repainted fairings, or try to clean up the other set for the stock look.....I don't think the silver, powder-coated frame would look good with the OEM paint scheme.....I'll have to try each set and see which one I like the best....Ideally, I'd love to paint it yellow (my favorite Ducati color).

If I'm telling you something you already know, don't be offended:

Not sure if you are aware or familiar with 1000-1500 grit, but it's used to take orange peal out of paint. If you wanted to maintain a semi gloss (ish) look to the F-1 cans themselves, follow the 600 with 1000, then 1500. Do each several times before moving onto the next. Then hand compound or chrome polish for a slight gloss, or none for a dull, or machine buff for a shine. 1500 is too fine to see with the naked eye, unless looking really really close. Use something between your fingers and the sand paper like a small sponge or soft plastic or you'll see the uneven pressure marks of your fingers. Use high quality paper like 3M, knock offs can be inconsistant grit, harsher than stated. Use a little soapy water, helps keep the paper unclogged.

I also have a neat little trick for rusted chrome. At Advance auto parts they have something called Tough Stuff, acid actually. Clean your rust off whatever way you prefer. , Polish, then treat the entire surface with the Tough stuff according to the directions. Wipe off then polish normally after it well after it dries, peferably one with a rust inhibitor. (I hate turtlewax but they have a chrome polish with an inhibitor) What you've done it turn the micro pores of rust in the chrome to black. Unless the chrome is really bad, you can't see the microscopic rust spots since they are now black.

Food for thought anyway.

As for the swing arm, there's always next winter. Nothing wrong with getting it in solid if imperfect form for this season.

So, how many times have you run the dragon? SC? Can't be too far away for you.

bf-fly wrote:If I'm telling you something you already know, don't be offended:

No offense.

I have some 1000-grit and 1500-grit sandpaper at the house (I may even have some 2000-grit, but it is quite difficult to find). Wet-or-dry paper, but I use it "wet" because it clogs far to easily if you use it dry......I forgot which one it is, but I've also used toothpaste to get rid of swirls and really small scratches out of plastic windows.

bf-fly wrote:I also have a neat little trick for rusted chrome. At Advance auto parts they have something called Tough Stuff, acid actually.

I've had great luck using using Nevr-Dul a wadding cloth that has an acid in it. I've gotten to the point where I'm starting to dislike chrome, and I only wash my Harley a couple times a year (despite putting lots of miles on it). I use more engine degreaser than soap or wax, these days.

bf-fly wrote:So, how many times have you run the dragon? SC? Can't be too far away for you.

Taking nice, twisty, mountain roads, I can be there in about 3 hours. I've been there a few times, but no where near the number of times my wife has been, over the years (at least once a month from '94-'00, or so, for her). The place has gotten to be absolutely stupid on the weekends, so we're planning one trip there this year, that will mainly be during the week. We haven't been there in over two years, as we have a lot more fun on MANY of the other fairly local roads that don't have anywhere near the following as Deal's Gap ("Tail of the Dragon"). Some of them are basically only known by locals. The nearest mountain road near me has somehow been named the "Tail of the Lizard".

I've had great luck using using Nevr-Dul a wadding cloth

Use the Never Dull if you wish in leu of the Tutle Wax (chrome polish with rust reformer), but I'd still recommend the Tough stuff as a pretreatment. For very light surface rust Never Dull is fine, but anything more requires a "tougher" product. Just my two cents.

Your wife must be a hell of a rider. Faster than you???

bf-fly wrote:Your wife must be a hell of a rider. Faster than you???

She was one of the fastest riders in the area before the head-on with the Oldsmobile in 2003. Her left foot is now paralyzed and she can't slide off the seat, so that restricts her. She was impressive enough that in the mid-late 90's, she had a couple of people offer to sponsor her if she'd get on the track.

Nowadays, she's still quite respectable, but has slowed down considerably, especially since another minor accident can possibly result in the loss of her leg...and we have a two-year old to think of. She's still a bit faster than me on some roads, especially if she knows it better than I do, but I can be faster, mainly because I can slide off the seat. That's her largest limiting factor.

In general, we are a perfect match on the street, now, going the same pace, riding/passing with the same style and mannerism, and are just a good riding team.........but she will still shock some folks with her speed and fluidity. There've been a few folks that seem to get a little frustrated that she passed them, but I wouldn't be....I know how she rides.

Vicki's GSXR page with some about her accident...
http://members.aol.com/TBoling125/gsxr_page.html

Give her a big thumbs up from me, that's tragic but incredible too.

I worry about my girlfrind riding a little. She's a newbe, I never pushed her at all, just something she's always wanted to do. I started her out last year on a 1980 SR250 Exciter as a confidence builder. I've all but finished a 81 XS650 for her, top to bottom cosmetic and partial mechanical rebuild, semi cafe style. Ran like a champ, ugly as hell, 8,000 miles, $950 bucks. $400 or so later and 75 hours it's looking very very good. Only paint to go pretty much, that's the easy part, just waiting for warm weather to do it. The exciter is going next week for $900 (paid $600), so that part of it's a wash. I doubt she'll ever meet your wife's level of competence, but I may put he on the Paso when she's ready. I've got to get my 78 CB750F done so we're compatable. It's very hard to ride my ZX11 that slow. I think a CB750 restored and a XS650 restored make a neat combo, the bikes that pretty much made each manufacturer. The Paso / ZX11 is pretty cool too, in time...,

I may make it to the dragon this summer, plan on it anyway. I've been there once, on a ZX6, much better suiter than my 11. We'll see, may bring that and the Paso, maybe her and the XS too.

Great for her, all the best.

Bob

Just a quick update, though you guts would find this interesting.

I'm sure I'm on the right track with the Paso, maybe not the best collectable there is, but I'll stick with it.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... B:EF:US:11

bf-fly wrote:I'm sure I'm on the right track with the Paso, maybe not the best collectable there is, but I'll stick with it.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... B:EF:US:11

This is what a guy on another forum said about that uncrated 1982 SS900 that I found interesting....

"If it was $5k, then it would have to be over $11k just to beat inflation, over $18k to beat a simple 5% interest rate, and over $50k to beat the stock market."

Diversity my friend. I never said it was the best choice or my only choice for a retirement plan, just one piece of the puzzle. As I also said, I can't ride my 401K or Roth. How much is that worth? I currently put the max allowed in my 401K + a Roth. Then what do I do? I collect lots of stuff. Want to know about my 8 track recorders? I like bikes because they take up little space, I like working on them, and of course fun to ride on occaision. I could do worse.

It's good info, thank you. I may not have to wait long though. I saw a 750 Paso go for about 4200 last year on Ebay. Now it's prime season and prices will skyrocket.