Another bad starter!!!

f1steveuk · Post by **f1steveuk** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:40 am

Ok, this is probably as easy as I think it is, but.........

Got home to France, Started the Paso, first time, lovely. Fitted the brake pads I got in the UK, no problem, didn't even take the calipers of, just swore a lot!

Went to start her, nothing!!! Charged battery. Went to start her, nothing! All I am getting in a click from under the seat, which logis tells me is a stater solenoid (but a distance away from the starter). Push the button, click. Is this thing the solenoid, can it be taken apart or tricked, or do I need a new one, or what!!!!??? My brain says "buy a new one" but I want to ride it NOW!!!!!!!!

Thanks in advance

Post by **Skins** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:05 pm

Could be bad connections, Steve. All connections must be tight and clean. Check them out, starting at the battery terminals. Also see the FAQ Digest at the top of the Paso 750 Discussions, checking out the 'Wiring Upgrade' in the first post.

f1steveuk · Post by **f1steveuk** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:30 am

I have been from one end to the other checking the tightness of all the connections, especially as it's such a long cable from solenoid/relay to starter, and nothing seems to be amiss. I'm stumped because when I took the dust cover off after three weeks, she fired. Then when I did the pads, the battery didn't have enough, so I suspect a drain somewhere, then a laboured turn over, charged, and now zip!!

Is there a seperate fuse from the three under the seat? Could something have over heated? Do these starters have a habit of jamming? It's bloody frustrating, it's 84 outside and sunny!!!!

Post by **Skins** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:29 am

Sorry, Steve, I'm not much good with electrics. All I can say is, I had similar problems, but I did Jon Slocum's wiring upgrade by fitting relays in the ignition circuit (which cost very little, using two Bosch relays, a few feet of wire, and a few connectors) and that fixed it.

desmodave · Post by **desmodave** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:32 am

f1steveuk wrote:I have been from one end to the other checking the tightness of all the connections, especially as it's such a long cable from solenoid/relay to starter, and nothing seems to be amiss. I'm stumped because when I took the dust cover off after three weeks, she fired. Then when I did the pads, the battery didn't have enough, so I suspect a drain somewhere, then a laboured turn over, charged, and now zip!!

Is there a seperate fuse from the three under the seat? Could something have over heated? Do these starters have a habit of jamming? It's bloody frustrating, it's 84 outside and sunny!!!!

........... ok sounds like regs gone but first check any wires for browning or blacking near to your reg is it an old one or the new type I was being bumped off at work for ages till I found out the right way was the wrong way of wiring up its since been corrected by the makers..........back to yours....if its your reg the battery will have been drained to oblivion....let me know how ya go......desmodave.

f1steveuk · Post by **f1steveuk** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:07 pm

The plot thickens!!!

I looked at the starter, and found one of the screws (the only one visible) has been in and out a few times, it won't do up tight, so the starter may well have been off a few times. Once the screw was out I tapped the starter (old BMC mini starter styly!) and bugger me it tried to turn, but very laboured. So I suspect the starter may be knackered, but it does seem strange "just" to go like that. So now the next question, how hard is it to change the starter?? Looks to me like, drain the stat housing and remove the whole side crank cover to find the other two screws?? Not the work of five minutes I suspect? The starter is a Denso, which is Japanese which seems strange although I know Laverda and Bimota used Jap electrics to cure some reliabilty problems.

I very grateful for your help chaps, but very peed off that I'm not riding it! Why is it these happen when you have your jacket, gloves, boots and helmet on, garage door open and then, FUT!!!!

ducapaso · Post by **ducapaso** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:53 pm

I had the same eact trouble in my dukess!
You sould test the voltage in all the 4 connecions of the solenoid...
This operation told me the trouble wasn't there... The sound "klik" wasn't enough to make it work properly!
If there's a rost trouble somewhere you'll need a multimeter to find it

Have a nice work,
Nicola

f1steveuk · Post by **f1steveuk** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:43 pm

Hi Chaps!

Back in the UK, having failed to get the Duke going.

I have various doubts, so next is try connecting a slave battery and see if that battery is at fault.

I put a large spanner across the solenoid, and it still just clicked, but the fact the starter tries every so often points to a fault in there.

Has any one got a written procedure for removing the stater? One I can download and print?

Desmodave

It's had a newer type reg fitted (there is a lot of modified wire behind the side panel), but nothing that looks like it has got hot. I never have liked auto electrics!!!!

ducapaso · Post by **ducapaso** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:43 pm

removing the starter is a part of disassembling engine in the shop manual. If you're sure you've a good voltage from the battery to the starter (with a voltage tester) you can try to control the brushes unsrewing the bottom of the starter. Do such thing only if you feel able to be a skilled mechanich, as it's not easy to work under the bike in such precision parts.
otherwise removing the starter requires to take away the left cover of the engine (drain the oil) and the flyweel. Parts should be the same of earlier ducatis
Have a nice work, Nicola

decesaro · Post by **decesaro** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:05 pm

My starter to wont turn ,I tryed everthing you did and today I went ahead and pulled the cover and sleeve off and I found one of the magnets can loose from the can and was jamming the armature . Im going to clean everythng up tonight at work and try to adhere it back to the can , it seems to look like they used some kind of epoxy to mount them in place . Just thought Id share that with you .

Does anybody know were I can get a set of brushes for the starter since I have it apart anyway ? Will this be something that I can get from a duc dealer without waiting months for ?

Post by **Skins** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:38 am

Just get a small set of brushes that are a little too big from an auto electrical shop, and carve them down to fit. That's what I did.

decesaro · Post by **decesaro** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:58 am

Skins wrote:

Just get a small set of brushes that are a little too big from an auto electrical shop, and carve them down to fit. That's what I did.

Good to here, about how long are the brushes suppose to be when new ? Also do you think Ill have any luck at a duc dealer ? I noticed it was a japan starter so I was thinking about hitting the local jap bike shops for a set if I cant get them from the duc dealer .
Take care.

Post by **Skins** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:09 am

I think I made them as long as I could, so they would still fit comfortably under the springs.

You could probably get brushes to fit from a bike shop, but they'll probably cost a bit more.

ducapaso · Post by **ducapaso** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:41 am

The brushes should be the same of earlier ducatis, such as monster, ss an so on, so there should be no great time to wait for, even if, (I suppose) Nippo Denso parts are easier to get far from Italy (I can suppose that not all paso owners are so lucky to live in Italy!

)

decesaro · Post by **decesaro** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:38 am

ducapaso wrote:The brushes should be the same of earlier ducatis, such as monster, ss an so on, so there should be no great time to wait for, even if, (I suppose) Nippo Denso parts are easier to get far from Italy (I can suppose that not all paso owners are so lucky to live in Italy! )

I should of put my nana and gigi back on the boat a long time ago so I to could have the perks like you :laugh: