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Alternator help !!!

Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:53 pm
by Leonardo
I need to remake de alternator, my mechanic need to know a questions :
Somebody know how many volts and watts the alternator produce?
The alternator is monophasic or trIphasic. ??? Thanks

Re: Alternator help !!!

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 8:20 am
by angelix
Leonardo wrote:I need to remake de alternator, my mechanic need to know a questions :
Somebody know how many volts and watts the alternator produce?
The alternator is monophasic or trIphasic. ??? Thanks

it is a monophase, should be 300Watts or thereabouts (in my opinion its a litle small, tho')

you can buy a reoplacement already made, from ELECTREX WORLD, ist not cheap, but I think is the best solution

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/ducati-r ... 259-0.html

Re: Alternator help !!!

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:58 pm
by Leonardo
Are you shure ? Because the orginal at the parts manual have 3 wires, then i think... It is triphasic or i am wrong ???

Re: Alternator help !!!

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:11 pm
by duc907
EuroMotoElectonics offers one they claim puts out 450 watts.

Re: Alternator help !!!

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 7:12 pm
by Tamburinifan
It is triphasic or i am wrong ???
You are wrong. Output 320W.

Re: Alternator help !!!

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 9:22 pm
by Tamburinifan
EuroMotoElectonics offers one they claim puts out 450 watts.
Mailes them, their reply:

>>We believe this DUCATI ENERGIA STATOR does fit your DUCATI MECCANICA 907IE motorcycle.

The 907IE has a smaller permanent magnet rotor, and therefore is not capable of producing more than the original wattage / current output…<<

So, sadly no more juice f us.... :,(

Re: Alternator help !!!

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:48 am
by Leonardo
HELP :o
Finally I dress a new stator and voltage regulator from Euromotoelectrics , the battery is new Yuasa 19 amp , but with the voltimeter, i measure ONLY 13 VOLTS , and i put all LEDS light to have a lower consumption . I am crazy i wanna light fire the motorcycle !! I m beginning to HATE this motorcycle , i dont know what is the problem !!!! the battery dont charge .
If a put a carburators ??? what happening ?? somebody did it???
i think the consumption of the inyection sistem is too high and this will be the problem, Im wrong? what do you thing ???

Re: Alternator help !!!

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:28 am
by angelix
Leonardo wrote:HELP :o
Finally I dress a new stator and voltage regulator from Euromotoelectrics , the battery is new Yuasa 19 amp , but with the voltimeter, i measure ONLY 13 VOLTS , and i put all LEDS light to have a lower consumption . I am crazy i wanna light fire the motorcycle !! I m beginning to HATE this motorcycle , i dont know what is the problem !!!! the battery dont charge .
If a put a carburators ??? what happening ?? somebody did it???
i think the consumption of the inyection sistem is too high and this will be the problem, Im wrong? what do you thing ???
will write in Italian and english ...


Non ci ho capito un acca!!
- I did not get a thing!

la batteria e' a 12V se ne segna 13V a vuoto e va bene.
- the battery is 12V if you mneasure 13V without any loads it is OK.

per capire se l'alternatore carica devi misurare la tensione e corrente della Batteria senza carichi (luci spente) e a carico ad un determinato numero di rpm.
- to understand if there is a problem with the generator or the reculator you need to measure V & A at a certain RPMs with and without loads
Image

Le luci a LED hanno delle resistenze in serie per portare il carico al valore nominale (frecce in particolare) quindi se ci va una lampadina da 21 W, anche la luce a LED sara' da 21W

- LED lights often have resistors to bring the total load value to the nominal value of standard light bulbs (turn light in particular) therefore it is possible that by changing the bulbs into LEDs the total load on the battery remains the same.

Metterla a Carburatori non e' un'opzione, la centralina e la pompa comunque consumano (ci vanno entrambe lo stesso!!!) e poi comunque non e' detto che tu riesca a farla girare bene.

- to ditch the EFI for carbs is not an option, you will end having an ECU and a Fuel pump anyways and carbs might be difficult to set.

La moto gira bene? anche tenendo l'aternatore staccato con una batteria ben carica, il motore dovrebbe girare bene per diversi minuti (1 ora?) quindi devi verificare che magari i guasti non siano piu di uno.
Quale e' esattamente il problema?

- Is the engine running well? if you disconnect the generator the engine should run well on battery only for several minutes (1h? ) , i think you need to check if there are other issues... what is exactly the problem?

Re: Alternator help !!!

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:31 pm
by Leonardo
angelix scusa , ma la mia lingua e lo spagnolo sorry .
con il motore spento la batteria misura 12.7 volts ( e nuova e di 19 amprpere) pero quando e acceso fa tra 13.3 a 13. 7 . Questi valori sono normali allora ? Io pensavo che era poco.
Il probblema e che quando accendo le luci il voltaggio diminuisce e si mangia la batteria.
Oggi abbiamo trovato che pure gira male il motore e non so se sono gli iniettori o se forse la centralina e sconfigurata. In Argentina non ci trovo chi possa configurarla. :-(

Re: Alternator help !!!

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:29 pm
by nojapan
Se accendi le luci e tieni il motore sopra i 3000 giri dovresti leggere almeno 13V. Se lo tieni al minimo ca. 12V.
Se il motore gira male prova a sostituire il filtro delle benzina che si trova nel serbatoio...spesso è ostruito e nessuno lo cambia!
Ricordati che qui si scrive in inglese.... in caso scrivi un PM :thumbup:

Re: Alternator help !!!

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:41 pm
by higgy
a TWO WIRE stator is single phase

the 3 wire stators on the paso's are split phase not 3 phase Ducati made no 3 phase stators prior to the 99 model year. ( there are also some 2 wire split phase on Paso's I am told)

On the two wire stators(97/98ST2) the coils are wired in series

On the 3 wire they are wired in parallel( 2 phase @ 90 degrees, split phase)

Many Bevel guys have installed the single phase ST2 stator or changed their stock stators from split phase to single phase sucessfully allowing more modern lighting with out draining the batteries

The ST2 stator is two wire single phase for 97 and 98 years

On these stators you can use the same regulator they are wired up differently.

I have done a lot of research on the single Phase stators. If you go single phase you need to put the regulator where it will get good airflow as the will produce a lot more heat regulating a single phase. In fact the regulators sold by everyone are the same models for the Paso and the ST2( 97/98)

ST2's are notorious for burning up both the stator and the regulator. YOU MUST MOVE IT !!!

The Mosfet regulator is your best bet for not eventually burning out your stator from bad connections( corrosion and undersized wire) or additional loading, gloves, lights etc. You can get one here..... http://roadstercycle.com/Shindengen%20F ... %20kit.htm

depending on the kit you order it is between 125 and 145 USD about the same as electrex or electrosport

99 and later ST2 are 3 phase and as stated before require changing the crank and since the magnet rotates outside the stator most likely the case and other related parts

They also require a 6 diode regulator, The Paso is 4 diodes
I t is possible to use a 4 diode regulator on a 3 phase system but you will fry your electronics with voltage spikes from the unregulated third winding if your battery can't handle it. Most likely you will also cook your battery putting an ac voltage across it.( blow it up you will :wacko: )


One additional note, when you replace a split phase stator with a single phase according to the theory you should get more wattage if you also wire it up with a good quality 18 gauge wire from the stator to the regulator and the battery source.. On most bikes the amperage from the stator is a function of the load more than the rotor or stator windings...in theory.
The one long winding as opposed to the two shorter windings should produce a higher voltage with the same rotor so if the amp loading stays the same you will get more watts... watts = amps x volts

The trick appears to be lowering the resistance between the battery,regulator and stator ...Replacing the crap stock wiring with 18 or 16 gauge wires with as few connections as possible. I also plan to rewire my stator with a higher quality wire to help it handle the load, I may change the stator wire size as well but have not decided yet whether to go up or down on the gauge size or leave it alone

A stronger magnet( Rotor) will give you more across the board from any stator. More on this coming in the future I don't think the magnets of the ST2 are stronger than the Paso. The change seems to be made to increase the oil cooling of the stator. The mod to install the washer was also intended to help keep the stator cooler There are better quality wires these days so it may not be a problem to do all this to a Paso

I plan to put all this to the test soon as I have fried my stator and regulator in the 906. If it all works out according to the theory I'll do the same to the 907 which is still working as designed but my new silverlight dual headlights drain the battery in about an hour if I don't keep the RPM above 3500.Even with the headlights off it only puts out 12.5 volts at idle For now I put a switch in to turn them off and let the battery charge back up. I did get stopped once for not having my headlights on but told the constable,Oops! I forgot :thumbup: :shock: :lol: :lol:

Re: Alternator help !!!

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:50 am
by higgy
An update and best solution.


After looking at all the options the cheapest best option is to send the stator to Ricks Electrosports in New Hampshire. He will rewind the stator to a 2 wire single phase for 145 including return shipping. There are many world wide can do a proper job for cheaper than I(you) and most will give a 1 year warranty

Choices I checked into

rewire myself...300 bucks to purchase everything as cheap as possible then there is time and effort...alot of both. My stator had to soak in epoxy remover for two weeks to get it apart. Will require epoxy replacement, rewire and re install. As I am incorporating and going my own way, not worth the time or trouble at the moment.

98 ST2 stator....145+ shipping(170US) new 2 wire single phase...requires spacer and shorter bolts and WILL NOT match the output of the stock rewire from Ricks. Any one need a brand new ST 2 (97/98) Stator I have one.

The rewire will absolutely require a better airfow to the regulator than even the ST2 update . Thinking of going the route of JWilliams and fan install.

One last thing I will look at is putting an oil slinger in to help keep the new stator as cool as possible prolonging its life. If I had ST2 parts sitting around I would most likely figure out a way to take a Paso Stator rewired 3 phase and fit it to the Rare Earth Magnets of the ST2 and call it a day, well more like a week :beer: :beer: It would in the end be a more modern long lived solution without the added heat issues of going full single phased.

A couple of things in passing

The ST2 97/98 version is a two wire 16 gauge(larger wire) wind but not as wide at the armature as the Paso(18g) and much less wire as in fewer turns


My 907 has the 2 wire single phase with 40k miles. Still works but need a rewind as well.

Re magnetizing is possible but not for your average non electrical Pasoist.

Could be a fatal mistake if you find electricity not your forte.
Will not be better than new for long, just new. You may find a new meaning to flaming Paso :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: or worse crispy Pasoist :dunno:

Rare earth magnets are very expensive as it would take a custom rotor.
The ST2 rotor would also take big mods do able but complicated. Crank replacement required there is no other reliable way to do it. At the very least after all the mods to put it on a non ST2 crank it would just twist the crank till it grinds the case or breaks. You can lighten some parts but not the magnet