problem with idling

h1a · Post by **h1a** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:03 pm

Hello everybody, this is my first post on the forum. I am driving a stock 93 mod 907ie wich the last couple of years have had a problem idling, the problem appears both with warm and cold engine it just make no diffrence. At idle it runs ony a few seconds before it dies.

My mechanic have tried fixing it a couple of times without any sucess and have run out of ideas I think, what he says is that it seem to be the rear cylinder that dies..

The bike has new plugs and filters (fuel&oil&air). Valves are adjusted and within spec., I have tried adding CRC in the fuelsystem to clean the injection jets without any noticeable effect.
Im not sure but i think the engine is running a bit hotter than it used to do before.

Except this problem it runs great and i really hope someone has a good advice where to start searcing for the problem.
Thanks
Haavard

Rogero · Post by **Rogero** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:39 pm

Hi Haavard - welcome to the site. There are much better qualified mechanical types than me who will be able to help, but as you live in cold Norway is the problem an all year thing? My Ducati mechanic is convinced that they don't like the cold weather at all.

Antti will have thoughts I know.

Good luck, have you tried leaving the the throttle advance "open" for a while? Got me home when running rough last month...

Finnpaso · Post by **Finnpaso** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:18 pm

Sounds, like Injection adjustments are NOT correct

; but i am not 100% sure.

Adjustments MUST be done this way:

Throttle Position Sensor adjustment.
Butterfly synchronisation.
CO Trimmer setting.
Air Bleeds.
We use the following sequence to correctly align all parts of the induction system. This sequence is essentially the same as the factory recommended sequence:

Set the Throttle Position Sensor on the throttle shaft. To correctly do this you must:
Completely back off the idle stop screws on both throttle bodies.
Use the Mathesis tester or a Digital MilliVoltMeter to read the throttle sensor voltage. To do this you should tap the butterfly with your finger to ensure that the butterfly is completely closed against the body. Then you turn on the ignition and measure the voltage on the throttle sensor:
P7 or P8 ECU(907IE!!!): Pins 11 and 17.

If the sensor does not read 150mV Plus or Minus 2mV then you need to adjust it:
Slacken the lock screws on the throttle sensor using a screwdriver or 7mm socket.
Carefully move the sensor whilst reading the voltage.
Retighten the lock screws a little at a time, each time reading the voltage and adjusting the sensor.
Note that you should probaly overshoot the reading by about 5mV on slack screws, because when you tighten them the reading will change by about 5mV.
Repeat until perfect. This takes a lot of practice.
The factory manuals specify +/- 5mV but we feel that this is not accurate enough. many owners will attest to the difference in performance when the sensor is set perfectly.
Re-set the throttle stop screw (or screws) so that the engine idles at around 1200 rpm. This is not a final setting for the stop screws, merely a step in the procedure. Typically this will produce a voltage of around 300mV on the TPS. This value is completely arbitrary and is not important. Many people misunderstand the factory manual in this regard and will try resetting the TPS until they get 1200 rpm idle and exactly 300mV on the sensor. THIS IS WRONG !!!. The actual voltage on the sensor at idle is irrelevant to correct sensor positioning on the throttle shaft. Trust Me !!
Synchronise the Butterflies:
Close the airbleed screws completely by adjusting CLOCKWISE. If you don't do this then the throttle vacuum will still reflect any air passing through the bleed channels and the butterflies will not be perfectly synched.
Attach vacuum guages to the manifold port on each cylinder and run the engine.
Adjust the throttle butterfly link shaft until vacuum is identical.
Rev the engine and confirm that vacuum tracks on both cylinders throughout the throttle and RPM range.
Re-adjust the link shaft until satisfactory results are obtained.
Do Not adjust the throttle link shaft after this point.!!
Set the IDLE Balance by adjusting the airbleed screws counterclockwise and confirming that the vacuum is identical for both cylinders at idle. You can rev the engine and observe vacuum tracking through the rev range, and then observe idle vacuum restabilising. NOTE Since the airbleeds are designed to iron out any irregularities in the throttle's function, by their nature there is no default setting, unlike the idle screws on a carburettor. If anything the default setting is fully closed. Airbleeds can also be balanced using a 2 channel CO meter. In this case, just adjust the bleeds until both cylinders have the same CO.
Adjust the IDLE Mixture. Finally you get to set the CO Trimmer ! This will affect both cylinders by the same amount, so you need to set the airbleeds first. A typical CO figure for idle is 4% to 6%, but automotive regulations usually specify a CO of under 1% to meet emmissions standards. A V-twin will idle very poorly if the CO is set below 1%, so if you are really bothered try a setting of about 3%. Note that you may need to finesse the airbleeds at this stage.
Adjust the IDLE RPM. Set the idle rpm at the manufacturer's figure (usually 1100 - 1200 rpm) by adjusting the throttle butterfly stop screw (or screws). We recommend 1200 rpm for Ducatis and Guzzis, possibly 1500 rpm for Ducati 996SPS models.
Finally, note that the last three steps are usually repeated until an acceptable balance of Idle Balance, Idle Mixture, and Idle RPM are obtained. This is normal. Do Not adjust the throttle synchronisation link shaft once it is set in the early stages. If you do this now, you will need to go through the entire sequence again.
So hopefully you will have an engine which now idles, accelerates, and delivers full power faultlessly. Again, if you are not confident about all of these steps, then we suggest you use a dealer who has the skills and equipment. It is not worth adjusting the CO trimmer unless the entire sequence is followed without skipping any steps.

Btw, WHAT kind of CRC You put to injection system???

Those injectors are very sensitive eqipments, so its good to take them every 40 000-50 000 km to such injection maintainer, who clean and check them totally, how they spray fuel. There is also special filters in input hole of injector and those maintainers change those filters with SPECIAL tool. I know, that there are many kind CRCs, but i dont know, have they injection cleaning stuff, or did You put some "normal thin lubrication" CRC? I never put that kind to injection :thumbdown:

Rogero · Post by **Rogero** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:24 pm

Wow - very thorough Antti! If you are ever in the UK come and stay for a couple of days. You can drink my beers and fix my 907IE rather than me pay the Ducati dealership 1,000 Euros every year :laugh:

persempre907 · Post by **persempre907** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:53 pm

Rogero wrote: 1,000 Euros every year :laugh:

.

1000 Euros??????????????
For the normal maintenance?
It's a folly!!!! I can't believe it :toofar: !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ciao

Finnpaso · Post by **Finnpaso** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:43 am

Just thats why i have learned to do Ducati maintainings myself !!!

Finnpaso · Post by **Finnpaso** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:47 am

Rogero! Doest that mean, that i can drink Your beers "for that 1000 Euros", when i come? If so, ill come and fix Your 907IE

Anyway that job needs lot of beer... i know!

h1a · Post by **h1a** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:54 pm

Thanks for your input everyone and specially to Finnpaso for a very informative answer, I am really not confident in injection systems (I am more familiar with old 2-stroke engines) so I am planning to leave the bike to the same ducati dealer again for a last time, I know he has hired a new mechanic this year and hopefully he will be able to do a better job than the last one did, but if they mess it up again I have a great starting point to try to figure out things by my self.
The CRC I used; it is made especially for injection engines.
Oh, and 1000 Euros seems to be about the amount I am using on spare parts and service every year, so that is a good motivation to try to learn to do more of the maintenance my self.javascript:emoticon(':thumbup:')

Rogero · Post by **Rogero** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:57 pm

£795 POUNDS STERLING was the cost of the last service!!

That's about €1,000 is it not?
I was SHOCKED!

More to tell at some stage.....

Finnpaso · Post by **Finnpaso** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:18 pm

Rogero, Better buy to me enough beer !!! :funny: Btw, i have very good offer from Ducati Slovakia, I visited there and they want me to there for working, but i think better idea to earn money in Finland(quite high payment) and SPEND those moneys in Slovakia(low coast country)!!!

,,, so probably there again next summer!

Btw, start to learn things, how to maintain Pasos, we help You as much, as we can. Dont worry, sometimes joking here is quite hard, but it belongs to Ducatiworld! My workfriends are joking with me every day... they ask very often, which of my bikes engine in just now totally open? Mostly they are joking about bad electrics of "made in Italy products" and that hurt me very much, cause i know very well that "weak point" of Ducatis, as i am electrician.

Rogero · Post by **Rogero** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:45 pm

You are not wrong Antti, but in the Uk all the Italian dealerships charge very high for their "services". I have found a non official source who may be able to help in the future, but you are right I must learn and be more confident with mechanics rather than basics!

Perhaps I should get another BSA ? :laugh:

Finnpaso · Post by **Finnpaso** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:24 am

NOOOOOO !!!! You buy another DUCATI and start to learn things!

Rogero · Post by **Rogero** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:44 am

Ok - I will.

907 service manuals I've found on sites for about $68. Before I order one is there a better source. I'm determined to do more myself ( or at least give it a try!! )

Thanks in advance.

persempre907 · Post by **persempre907** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:51 pm

Hi Rogero,
where have you found the service manual?

No matter, it seems to me you need also of 906 manual, 'cause the 907 manual would be only an addition to the 906 manual.

Ciao

Rogero · Post by **Rogero** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:02 pm

$68 - seems OK to me. Not sure how much they'll charge for shipping to the UK.http://www.repairmanual.com/catalog/91470051C