New lines that don't work: squeeze, suck, lean over,?

[pasophist]

I read the threads.
I am having problems bleeding the cluch.
And my briaded brake lines don't fit.

88 750 Paso.

Clutch lever spongy and not disengaging cleanly. Tried to bleed. With vacuum pump. No difference. Detached clip on and tilted reservoir and re-tried. No difference.

Put that aside and tried to fit my new Galfer 750 Paso braided SS brake lines to the front. Wrong lines. Mine are short 'uns from caliper to brake switch. Swivel connecitons with no banjo bolts required. Then another single line swivel at switch to master cylinder with banjo bolt. The Galfer kit was two lines (ebay) swivel at caliper to banjo at master cylinder.

1. What can I do about my clutch bleed? Any suggestions?
2. Are your front brakes designed the same way?
3. Anyone want to buy a brand new never installed Galfer set for Paso front brakes with no in-line brake switch?
4. anyone try putting a brake switch on the lever/mc instead?

Thanks.

SMS

[nilaus]

Hi
Regarding the clutch bleed. I wrote a couple of lines some time ago. http://forums.ducatipaso.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1345
I hope that it will help you.
And I have the brembo micro switch on my brake leaver. I got it from my Ducati pusher. It is a standard switch that fits right on no mods than the leads.
Best Regards
Klaus
PASO 750, 1990
http://www.motorcykelgalleri.dk/html/ga ... sp?ID=1846

[Desmo_Demon]

1. What can I do about my clutch bleed? Any suggestions?

Edit - Looks I'm expanding on Nilaus's response a little (I was typing all of this while he was responding).....


This is what I do....taking the necessary precautions for spills and dripping of brake fluid.....

1) Break loose and separate the banjo bolt and line from the master cylinder. Put your finger/thumb over the opening and operate the lever to make sure that it is pushing fluid out and not sucking air back into the master cylinder when you release the lever. Typically, you can leave your finger off of the opening when pulling the lever in, and then cover up the hole when you release so the master cylinder will suck fluid into the MC from the reservoir instead of air from the atmosphere. *NOTE - Do NOT put much pressure over the hole with your finger when pulling the lever in, or you can build up enough pressure to shoot brake/clutch fluid everywhere.

2) When you know that the master cylinder is working correctly and you've got all of the air out of it, reinstall the line and banjo bolt. If you have the bike and handlebars positioned correctly, you will force fluid out of the master cylinder with the banjo bolt as you tighten it because of the level of fluid in the master cylinder's bore. You should check the function of the master cylinder by cracking the banjo bolt loose a little, pull the lever in, and see if fluid squirts from that area. If it does not, you will have to remove the banjo bolt and re-prime the master cylinder. If you do get fluid coming out, retighten the banjo bolt BEFORE you release the lever or the master cylinder will suck air into it. You may want to do this a couple times just to confirm that you have the air out of that area and that the master cylinder stays primed and working.

*NOTE - It is important to make sure your master cylinder is properly primed, or you are wasting your time.

3) Once you have the master cylinder working correctly, move down to the slave cylinder (if working on the clutch) or one of the brake calipers (if working on the brakes). To save time, I generally will open the bleeder valve and then pull the lever in to get a full stroke of the master cylinder's piston and displacing that amount of fluid in the line. You then MUST close the bleeder valve BEFORE you release the lever, or you will suck air into your line. Do this multiple times to get the fluid flowing. If after a few attempts, you are not getting any fluid out of the bleeder, recheck the banjo bolt at the master cylinder to make sure the MC is still primed. If you do get fluid, I generally will use this method to go through at least one full reservoir or fluid. I also do it fairly quickly to try to push any air out of the line in the high points ar at junctions where air bubbles may accumulate. By going fairly quickly, the bubbles will never have time to move back to their little hiding places.

NOTE - DO NOT...NEVER....NEVER let your reservoir get empty!!!!!

4) Once you flush a reservoir of fluid through the line and caliper, start using the more common method of pressurized bleeding. This is where you "pump" the lever a few times to build up pressure in the line, and while holding the lever in, you crack open the bleeder valve and the fluid should come out quickly (as it is under pressure). Do this a few times until the lever pull has a nice and firm feel to it, letting you know that you've bled the air out of the line.

and again.....

NOTE - DO NOT...NEVER....NEVER let your reservoir get empty!!!!!


In a rare occasion, you may have to break the line loose on the caliper or slave cylinder to bleed the air if it is trapped at that location from a bend or severe angle of that union, but I have run across very few times that I have ever had to break loose the banjo bolt at that point.

Another important note - Those washers for the banjo bolt and line are crush washers. Even when you think they are still working well, it is not uncommon for them to be beyond their use and are allowing air into the system. With all the bleeding and leaking fluid, you will often not notice that you are leaking some fluid at these points, so......if in doubt, change your crush washers!!!!

4. anyone try putting a brake switch on the lever/mc instead?

A newer master cylinder, such as one from a '98 ST2, will have a micro switch for the front brake built into it. You can "upgrade" to a newer master cylinder for about the cost of a new micro switch through Ducati. I often see the older "coffin" reservoir style master cylinders at very reasonable prices. Without looking at the stock master cylinder on the Paso, I don't know if it is feasible to install a micro switch onto it. Edit - Niliaus states that a micro switch will bolt right into place, so you will only have to hook it up to the wires that go to the pressure switch.

I hope this helps.

[Johnnie]

I bought the Galfer lines before I realized how they work, I emailed Galfer about, they said they would send me a brake switch that works in place of the bolt on the master cylinder at no charge (like the rear brake on the paso), in the mean time I found a full set of SS brake lines off a paso being parted on ebay with the manifold and brake line switch (stock setup) for 50 bucks I needed the brake switch anyway so I bought it. back to Galfer I asked if I could return the lines and am still waiting for an answer. FYI I looked at my bike and thought the brake switch when mounted on the master cylinder might stick out in front of the tachometer. I lucked out on the second set of brake lines I found, I didnt feel good about Galfers alternate suggesstion. Good luck

[pasophist]

me again.

Thanks guys. Thats tons of good info. And to think bleeding the brakes on this bike might be just like any other bike? Hah!

[Desmo_Demon]

And to think bleeding the brakes on this bike might be just like any other bike? Hah!

Actually, it is just like any other bike........I've done a lot of master cylinder, brake line, and caliper changes and rebuilds over the last several years and I couldn't tell you the frustration I had with some of the systems. It wasn't until I realized that I was often getting air into the master cylinder and losing it's prime that it became much easier on me.

I once spent over two days (about eight hours) fighting the master cylinder on my Harley before I discovered there was air in the MC. It was at that point that I realized....if you do not have the MC primed, all the pumping of the lever and cracking open the bleed valve at the caliper/slave cylinder will not accomplish anything. I felt soooooo stupid that day with the Harley.....I had a similar experience with the clutch on my ST2 when changing out the master cylinder. Turns out, I had reused the crush washers so many times that they were not crushing any more to make the seal. I kept sucking air into the line at the banjo bolt and into the master cylinder. After changing out the crush washers, I had the line bled of all air in a matter of five minutes.....whereas I wasted about four hours fighting it because of a bad washer.

[Johnnie]

As a follow up the guy at Galfer agreed to take the lines back for a refund. if you decide not to use them that might be an option. fortunatley mine are still in the unopened package. good luck

[pasophist]

Thanks everyone. Brakes bled. Work great! Anyone who has not done the switch to braided steel lines, let me advise that the brake feel and power is 30% improved.

And I used the galfers- deleted the hydraulic brake switch and will pick up a microswitch for the lever mechanism (which is the same as on my Supersport carbie).

Now, on to my clutch!!

SMS