Ignitech Sparker TCIP4 ignition?

[delagem]

Anybody ever heard of these?

Sold by Chris Kelley at Ca-cycleworks.com

I blew yet another Kokusan bb1105 igniter box (this on the 92 900ss, but they're the same as on the Paso). Started looking for substitutes, this is what Chris recommended.

Anybody have any experience with them? Reliability? $249. Sold anywhere cheaper? Or, where's the cheapest place to buy more of the Kokusan boxes?

[Tamburinifan]

Yes and it`s a very nice improvement, too!

Runs well w the default Ducati Kokusan map,
my friends Paso 750 & my M900 are 2 examples among many.
From Ignitech they cost 127 Euro.

All you need to know:
http://www.bikeboy.org/ducati2vignition.html

Why Chris likes them:
Whttp://www.speedzilla.com/forums/general-ducat ... azing.html

[ducapaso]

For kokusantry this:
http://www.pirinimoto.it
they were selling black boxes @ €75 each in their stand at Imola's spare parts fair
info:
pirinimoto@pirinimoto.it
fax 0547653284

[delagem]

Those of you who've run this setup, can you answer a question?

The base timing starts at 10 deg, and advances to 14 deg by 2,600 rpm on the Ignitech. Finally reaches 32 deg at 7,000 rpm.

The base timing starts at 6 deg, and advances to 32 deg by 2600 rpm on the Kokusan.

So, how do you set timing? As in, line up your timing marks on the flywheel? If you set the base correctly, it's off at both 2600 and higher.

If you set the 2,600 rpm to match, it will be off both above and below!

Or do you just leave the ignition timed for the Kokusan, and just throw this new module on and ride off into the sunset?

I tried 2 ways, I ran the module for a while at the Kokusan setting, and finally moved it to where the base timing lines up with the timing marks, when at idle. I don't notice a difference between the two. But I'm not sure which is correct. The instructions that came with the unit are of no help.

[giocast]

I'm sure there will be many specialist replies along soon delagem, but meanwhile, it's quite easy to get your head round it really - I am guessing you have the twin pick-up Kokusan system as std? With Ignitech installed, if you adjust pick-ups so strobe aligns with std timing mark (6 deg) at idle, then you will get a marginal improvement possibly mid-range but will only achieve 28 deg full advance*. If you decide to take advantage of the whole std Ignitech advance settings then you could remove left cover and add two 10 deg timing dots (to the left of original 6 deg as crank runs anti-clock) if you wanted to do the job properly. Think I would tend to try both and see how bike runs. Goes without saying, engine will need to be in a good state of fettle to use Ignitech settings with good reliability.

* Just to totally confuse matters, and contradict my earlier 'easy' statement, (!) - just read above link and according to 'Brad' some (all/most?) 2valve flywheels have timing actuation lugs set up to achieve 36 deg full advance, not 32 deg as stated in many workshop documents.** This would mean that if you set up Ignitech unit with std (6 deg) timing mark at idle, then you would achieve 32 deg full advance..


** Can anyone shed more light on this?

[Tamburinifan]

Or do you just leave the ignition timed for the Kokusan, and just throw this new module on and ride off into the sunset?

First time I tried it I did that, worked fine.
And my friends 750 Paso w the default Kokusan map works flawlessly also.


How I think it works,
2 quotes, first from link to Brad above, then another thread in another Fora:

The position of the trailing edge (clockwise end) of the flywheel lump relative to TDC defines the idle advance.
The length of the flywheel lump defines the amount of degrees between idle advance and maximum advance.

Base advance for the 900SS is 6deg, if set higher on the Ignitech then this retards across the whole map, eg if you set as 10deg then it is retarded 4deg for the whole range.

So,
one end of the flywheel lump defines/fixates ignition advance at idle (6 degrees),
the other defines/fixates maximum ignition advance possible.

My experience is that a few degrees off doesn`t matter that much as long as it starts easy, idle OK & doesn`t ping.
Just my 2c.

[delagem]

I read thru a couple hours of posts on the Monster board about this box. This is what I gathered.

The distance between the leading and trailing edge of the boss on the flywheel define the maximium duration of advance. It is 26 degrees. Since you can set your pickup on the flywheel to whatever you wish (within limits of pickup adjustment), you can add whatever base advance you add to the 26 to determine your maximum top-end advance.

So, if you set your pickup to 10 degrees, you can enter any maximum up to 36 degrees. It will do less, but no more.

It seems that the best approach is to put a degree wheel on the flywheel, and establish TDC, then mark the flywheel with an accurate point, say 10 degrees. Then the pickups should be adjusted, using a base map of 10 degrees, to determine pickup location. From this point forward, all numbers will be correct.

[angelix]

....The distance between the leading and trailing edge of the boss on the flywheel define the maximium duration of advance. It is 26 degrees. Since you can set your pickup on the flywheel to whatever you wish (within limits of pickup adjustment), you can add whatever base advance you add to the 26 to determine your maximum top-end advance.
....
It seems that the best approach is to put a degree wheel on the flywheel, and establish TDC, then mark the flywheel with an accurate point, say 10 degrees. Then the pickups should be adjusted, using a base map of 10 degrees, to determine pickup location. From this point forward, all numbers will be correct.

In fact the first operation you need to do is SET UP the BASE advance by moving the pickup position.

For the KoKusan this is 6 degrees and once this is set, the mds will give the advancs as per the Ducati specs.

with the Ignitec, the principle is the same, but with the bonus of being able to tweak for specific RPMs intervals, increase the RPM range and have extrafeatures such as a shift light, TPS input, coil/sensor swapping, sensor inverse polarity, tacho output, fuel pump output, servo output and much more.

For exhample, with the DUCATI PERFORMANCE MODULES (AL9000 1.1, 2.4), the advance at higher RPMs drops drammatically, this acts as REV Limiter; with the AL9000 3.0 it drops but a little bit less so the limit is less "dramatic"

Having the REV Limit on the Ignitec means there is more freedom on the maps.

not to mention the fact that you can actually adjust the maps in real time and having access to a dyno, you can actually see the effects straight away.

Sometime ago I did prepare the maps according to the AL9000x.x modules, and i thought also of doing the same using the Digiplex maps, just for jun of course.

there is also the option of enabling the TPS, having that fitted on the bike , you can actually have multiple maps on the style of the Digiplex (5 for the Digi, I think is 10 for the Ignitech);

I guess (I am taking this suggestion from Brad Blak @ bikeboy.org) you can use a MAP (Manifold Absolute pressure) sensor connected to one of the manifolds (I am actually thinking of trying it on my special...) which is in fact the system used by the Marelli Digiplex.

For me is a fantastic piece of kit...

[giocast]

obviously i'm new to the site, but do you normally go in for this much repetition?

[higgy]

There is an old addage in groups like this
If only newbies would RTFFAQ.

Just the way it goes

[giocast]

Sorry 'dude', lost me there.. Forums I stick with are mostly full of people (me included) who go out of their way to include 'newbies' rather than totally ignore them as if they hadn't posted at all .. (you are not one of these clearly higggy but I respect you for 'closing ranks' (if that's what the FFAQ refers to..)) hopefully you could see that my comment was only meant to be taken half seriously?:thumbup:

If it had said RTSFAQ then I would have worked it out!

[higgy]

Not closing ranks at all
Just pointing out that the moderators here spend much time making things relevant and easy to find
We all are newbies at some point in time

[giocast]

only just picked this up Mr Higgy - my cryptic comment 5 posts up had nothing to do with moderators but was referring to posts that followed mine.. And for the record, much as I have come to 'tolerate' your jottings and even like some of them, the 'we are all newbies at some point in time' gets a 10 out of 10 for patronism from me and could go a little way to explaining why I never fully made this Forum my home despite the excellent content and technical help. This is still a partly tongue in cheek reply don't you know

[delagem]

Since you've bumped this up to the top, I'll add in an update.

Ignitech boxes are crap. Clever, surprisingly adjustable, great user interface, but crap.

The internet is now full of people complaining of how these boxes die. Usually it's from using non-resistor style spark plugs, or mounting the Ignitech box directly on the coils or something equally dumb. In my case I did neither, and the box still eventually died. Takes 20 or 30 minutes of riding, then drops one cylinder.

Contacting Ignitech was extremely difficult to do. Probably 5 or 6 emails over several weeks before they finally replied. They will bench test the box, and charge a small fee if nothing is wrong. But with an intermittent failure like mine, they may not even see it. And with shipping, insurance, etc, the cost of a new Ignitech isn't much more than the repair.

I tossed my Ignitech box after one too many rides, limping home on one cylinder, and went back to the Kokusan boxes.

Glocast, I never understood your comment on why we go in for so much repetition? We keep reading and asking until we understand. If you don't like it, why read it? I do also understand why you don't hang out here much. I don't either. Some of the personalities here are a bit too caustic, hiding behind the guise of being "humorous". Shame, it is a helpful forum.

[angelix]

I got two Ignitechs, one failed although the failure was different in the sense that every now and then it would be hard to start .

As an independent reseller of electronic compoinents I can see where they might have gotten it wrong (sometimes is just a wrong batch of transistors) so I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I also need to point out that the guys at Ignitech, although being a little slow in the replies (I guess they are very busy racing, building or designing), they ALWAYS replied to muy emails and when my init went worng, even after nearly 3 years (THREE!) they fixed my my unit and asked 20 EU (30USD) as payment.

My box is not far away from the coils, it might be the case I move it away or simply wrap it in foil and ground it so that any interference goes straight to the ground.

In any case the internet usually is full of complains only, it is very rare that a happy person will take its time to talk about something that is good.

As for the the comments about the forum and forum user personalities.... is that really so important? sometimes people thinks the world is all in the forums... just go out, enjoy life, have more sex, take the bike and go out for a ride.