Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado

[jcslocum]

Girls, Girls, GIRLS!!!!

You're both PRETTY, now stop the bickering and go to your respective garages!

Let be nice...... Can't we all just sing Kumbaya and hold hands??? :-)

[higgy]

Girls, Girls, GIRLS!!!!

You're both PRETTY, now stop the bickering and go to your respective garages!

Let be nice...... Can't we all just sing Kumbaya and hold hands??? :-)

Hi Jon
Long time no see
I think I am finally dry
Put on Mike's kits on the 907,will have a report soon.
Want him to have fair time to respond.
907 now starts reliably
Maybe next year I will get there on time

[Duc906]

AAww, come on Jon. I just got comfy with a 6 pack and a bowl of doritos.

[PasoRoo]

Del's and Mikuni's and FCR's are all fine carbs. Well Mikuni's and FCR's anyway

I'm sorry Higgy: are we now dissing Dell'Ortos as well??? I'll have you know that my right biceps has never been stronger because of the exercise Italy's finest has given me!

Massimo had Dell's when I bought him so I can't, and therefore won't, comment on the merits of the Weber.

Any of those Doritos left Ken?

[higgy]

I'm sorry Higgy: are we now dissing Dell'Ortos as well???

Depends, would you find that entertaining? I have many a yarn about the old 74 750 GT back in the day when ticklers came standard
Or how about remote floats on my very first pair of mikuni's

[angelix]

This 3D is really funny; it reminds me of the appleboys Vs. the-rest-of-the-universe discussions, you start exchanging simple views and opinions then you end with your throat slashed from ear to ear.

the sad part is that the fellow Pasoista asking for help, is probably thinking on investing 2 quid on some petrol and burn the bloody thing...


Lets make this clear: I have absolutely nothing to against Webers or Digiplexes, both are great pieced of equipment and both happily running well in my some of my family cars.

But it is a matter of fact that the Weber was NEVER intended for motorcycle use and that is its limit; there is no discussion on that.

There is NOT one single other motorcycle manufacturer (at least not in europe or japan) that used the weber set up, and this should be more than enough to make the point.

I am sorry , but the sound, the performance at sea level and on a straight are not good enough, at least not for me!

I like to ride my bike from the Highlands of the UK (where I live) down to the Apennino Tosco Emiliano where my Ducatis are developed passing through the Alps of Northen Italy (were I was born); for me the is the riding experience what counts most, it is paramount.

There is nothing like a "soso" tuning to upset and spoil the ride and I find silly having to spend hours in time and money , trying to get something work (by your own admission) when the solution is just at hand's grasp with a very small investment.

A solution that has been tested over and over againg on thousands of bikes.

As for the Digiplex, I never said it was the " failure of the Weber calibration in the Paso"

My exact words were: "I am also convinced that the idea of using the Digiplex was only because this way they could use different progressive advance maps with the intention of getting it to work ... unfortunately it did not."

I am sorry I expressed the concept in a very short sentence and it was sort of incomplete, therefore I will try to develop it better.

I believe ( again this is my opinion) the intention was to try to solve some issues Weber related by copying a partnership that used to work well on cars.

The Digiplex / Weber combination (not sure specificly about the DCNF) was very common in automotive aplications, it worked very well and probably was the best there was out there at the time ; It was so good that you could see the Digiplex (different model but overall the same system) fitted on very hiEnd cars such as the Ferrari 308, 328, 512BB, 400 and many more in partnership with either carbs or mechanical fuel injection.

One of the Criticisms that the Paso750 with the Kokusan modules had was the engine delivery: in fact it had two very clear "holes" in the engine performance, one at very low revs and one around the 3500-4000 rpm and this reflected in a poor riding experience at slow speeds or while picking up the engine in the tight corner exits.

The Digiplex was a very nice piece of kit with the multiple maps and it apperars to me that it was was the solution to the problem, in fact the 906 received very positive comments with regards to the engine performance and power delivery; of course it was a different engine, however it was clear that some of the problems emerged on the P750 engine performance had been addressed.

The Digiplex saw the light on few hundred P750 towards the end of its life; as I said I had two, one with the Kokusan and one with the DIGI and the latter , unfortunately, did not work, I had multiple failures and in the end I managed to get it sorted , but was never right or at least never as I wanted it to be.

The big issue with the Digiplex, was the fragility... so put it together with an already troublesome Carb and you have a recipe for a disaster.

Just open one and look inside and you will clearly see what I mean: some of the components were not suitable to withstand vibrations typical of the Vtwin, the eproms used to get loose and came out of their sockets, the motherboards used to crack in certain places, moisture used to get inside through the pressure switch and gave lots of problems where a lot of cold and moisture where present.

I am not 100% sure but I believe there were issues in the manufacturing. I remember seing different batches, in fact some had mo.bos sealed with resing compounds and those were "sort of OK", others had bare mo.bos with hand solded additional caps the size of a match box which looked like they were put toghether by blind monkeys.

I had 4 Digiplexes (two from a P750, one from a 906 and one from a Guzzi) and all of them had a very poor assembly quality , in fact 3 out of four were damaged.

Those issues could have been addressed by Marelli or Ducati, but that probably meant higher costs, so in the end Ducati reverted to the Kokusan which was simplier and equally effective (specially combined with the Mikunis).

As for the comparison 906 Vs 907ie (this is another story...) , I sort of agree... carbs are better specially in the very low revs and in particular when you pick up the throttle on exiting of a corner ( the very slow ones are the worse).

The reason is because the EFI is very harsh in those conditions and it took a whole new generation (probably two) of EFIs to sort out the problem (only partially tho'); Lets not forget that the Marelli P7 was developed for the car industry, so again it is an adaptation which works very well but has some defects.

I got used to it somehow and it does not bother me (its part of the 907s character) and I got the habit of exiting the tight corners with an extra gear and exploit the torque of the engine.

NOTE: the Eprom on the P7 is fitted on sockets (I have two and both have the same system) so that you can change Eprom according to the tuning; Sometimes they come lose from the sockets causing EFI failures. The solution is two small drops ofsilicone just to keep them in the socket.

[higgy]

This 3D is really funny; it reminds me of the appleboys Vs. the-rest-of-the-universe discussions, you start exchanging simple views and opinions then you end with your throat slashed from ear to ear.

We are all Ducatista
Hell I am just having some fun
Besides,things tend to get a little slow around here sometimes
So grab your brew and quickly run out for more Dorito's
Lets have another round, ifin yur up for it Anglix

There is NOT one single other motorcycle manufacturer (at least not in europe or japan) that used the weber set up, and this should be more than enough to make the point.

OH, Contrair Mein Heir




The simple truth is at one time or another every single manufactuer of motorcycles on the planet has used a weber,mainly for developement on prototypes. Only Harley and Ducati sold them to the public
Oh I forgot, What exactly was the pint( sic point) you wanted to make

[angelix]

The simple truth is at one time or another every single manufactuer of motorcycles on the planet has used a weber,mainly for developement on prototypes. Only Harley and Ducati sold them to the public

Very interesting.

You see, one never ends discovering new things.

[higgy]

My exact words were: "I am also convinced that the idea of using the Digiplex was only because this way they could use different progressive advance maps with the intention of getting it to work ... unfortunately it did not."

It more likely was due to the fact that Magnet Marelli owned Weber at the time..........

[angelix]

It more likely was due to the fact that Magnet Marelli owned Weber at the time..........

Weber & Marelli were owned by Fiat therefore I am sure sure there was collaboration since they were part of the same group, but even so they were separate companies.

Funny enough , Webers were manufactured ... where?

yep, BOLOGNA, 4.5Kms apart, basically on the same stretch of road (Viale Palmiro Togliatti passes in front of both factories)

I bet the designers (or the buyers and the sales... knowing the italians... ) of both factories were having an espresso together every morning before going to work

And I would not be surprised in discovering that the Digiplex manufacturing was subontracted to a company located in the area of Bologna... I work in the electronic manufacturing business and I know several COs in that area working on automotive systems; It is just a guess, but....

[Tamburinifan]

We need a popcorn smiley, is closest.

Nice catfight, entertaining & educational!

[higgy]

I am sorry , but the sound, the performance at sea level and on a straight are not good enough, at least not for me!

Performance at sea level? where did that come from
and who said anything about a straight line

I have (had) a Paso simply because I like the history behind it

Seems to me you have not a clue about the "history" of the Paso

Funny enough , Webers were manufactured ... where?

Spain, you hand waving english person you, ?

After Webers death in 1945, Fiat finally assumed control of the company in 1952.
In time, Weber carburetors were fitted to standard production "cars" and "factory racing applications" on automotive marques such as Abarth, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, BMW, Ferrari, Fiat, Ford, Lamborghini, Lancia, Lotus, Maserati, Porsche, Renault, Triumph and Volkswagen.


Genuine Weber carburetors were produced in Bologna, Italy up until around 1990 when production was transferred to Madrid, Spain, where they continue to be produced today.

YUP 1952, Oh and by the way,most of the theory weber used was developed on the bonnieville salt flats in the good ole USA, JFYI Can you spell Air Research? Carrol Shelby can,so can Enzio Ferrari and more to the point here so can (make that could)
Giovanni Castiglioni
Now to get to the heart of the matter, there is only one reason( well 2 really) why Massimo Tamburini( no one else made the decision for him) went with the Weber, it was all about the sound and performance. Here is one more historical fact:

Tamburini's experience within the motorcycle industry began when he attended the world championship race at Monza in 1961. Captivated by the sound of the MV Agusta's four stroke engine ridden by Provini, Tamburini devoted his life to the design of motorcycles.

Dude, in my long considered opinion,you need to do a little research to get your facts straight
my original point still remains, the Weber is far from hopeless. yes it took some time to get it right, and it might take a little time to collect all the proper parts, In the end it will still be cheaper than ANY substitute and most importantly of all, it will bring a smile to your face every single time you hit the starter( well this does assume you have fixed the electrics and have a good set of tires )


Oh one last thing

It is just a guess, but....

I guess a lot more Pasoist are having issues getting the damn things started than figuring out what to do after


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views on the Motoelectric kit 766

[Mc tool]

the UK (where I live)

Aha!

[englishstiv]

"Amal" ...............anyone?

[higgy]

"Amal" ...............anyone?

Got oil for them thar carbbies?