Avon Azaro-ST on the Paso 906

[barrysmith]

hi everyone:

for those who are in switzerland. it is very easy to get an official okay from the vehicle inspection here in ch for the avon combination - hence, everything is fine for insurance etc too. they do except the ducati germany certificate. you only need to send them the registration document and they put a remark in it (the remark is necessary because of the larger rim of the paso in respect to the tire). you can do it via mail (this is what I did), you do not need to show up with your bike. i guess that should be possible in eu-countries too - but of course you need to check if this is a way you would like to go th solve the paso tire problem.

all the best, hardo

..


Hello Hardo, I have done the same with Tyres and altered my centre stand by 20 m in height, I have a 40 and 15 teeth gears, but I can not alter chain, its to tight with 106 and the wheel /tyre jams on swinging arm or I add a link 108 and its far to slack. Am I missing the obvious ? the chain is the original and perfect with no visable stretch or wear, any help would be welcome thanks Barry



Bought a new chain today 108 x 520 Still to slack and it will only get longing, I will try 106 and a 14 x 40,

strange that you got yours chain right using 108 with 15 x 40 , I have just no more adjustment left to tighten chain, 106 on the 15 x 40 jams tyre and will not clear , any help most welcome.

[hardo]

hi barry

indeed there is only very little space left in order to fix the chain (as long as you do not use the "halfrings" from the netherlands, cf. thread above. In this case you have much more freedom in this respect).

Indeed, vee2duc (cf. thread aboce) and I are using the avon azaro with the 15 / 40 combination.
I put the excenter in a three o'clock position if you look on the bikke from the left hand side (cf. pics of the bike). This is not the usual position, but mr. liedman from ducati germany recommended this as it leads to the same "lift" of the bike on both axes (about 12 mm for the front and the rear wheel). I mentioned that in my thread at the beginning of this topic.

Giving this situation, I bought a 520 DID chain with 110 parts. The only way I was able to thighten the chain was with a 15 front and a 40 rear. Before the conversion, I was using 14 / 40 but I ran into the same problems as you describe with the 15 / 40 combination. I also thried 15 / 41 but it did not work too. I have not an answer here, I am sorry, because 15 / 40 with 108 links on the 520 DID chain did work for me and for vee2duc as well. Maybe there is some variance here because the bikes are not new anymore and used to have some variance in producation as well. However, my bike is certainly in original condition in respect to swingarm etc., I am sure that no changes had been made.

I am sure you will find some combination that will work, but indeed, since there is very little room left because of the larger radius of the tire, this is one disadvantage of this conversion (I mentioned that at the beginning of this thread).

Please let us know if you could solve the problem, if you need closer pics of these parts / swingarm etc. please let me know. I can make additional fotos.

all the best, hardo

[ukizook]

"Quote" Bought a new chain today 108 x 520 Still to slack and it will only get longing, I will try 106 and a 14 x 40,

strange that you got yours chain right using 108 with 15 x 40 , I have just no more adjustment left to tighten chain, 106 on the 15 x 40 jams tyre and will not clear , any help most welcome "quote"


Barry I had the same problem, my sollution was to put a "half link" into the chain. This is not ideal because you then need 2 split links to join the chain but i took things easy and now after just a few hundred miles the chain has just stretched enough to take the half link out.

[barrysmith]

"Quote" Bought a new chain today 108 x 520 Still to slack and it will only get longing, I will try 106 and a 14 x 40,

strange that you got yours chain right using 108 with 15 x 40 , I have just no more adjustment left to tighten chain, 106 on the 15 x 40 jams tyre and will not clear , any help most welcome "quote"


Barry I had the same problem, my sollution was to put a "half link" into the chain. This is not ideal because you then need 2 split links to join the chain but i took things easy and now after just a few hundred miles the chain has just stretched enough to take the half link out.

Hi Both,

I have a 14 on order along with 2 half links so I will try with this combination, The tyre problem is a pain,

I will not be beat if I have to add 10 m to the swinging arm or remove 10m..

Just bought the bike of a friend not run for 10 year , completly gone through bike , full service wheel bearings water pump( thats another story original water pump seal no longer available, fitted new type seal and reduced inpellar shaft to fit new bearing seals ) timing belts, Full set of brembo seals, dics and pads etc etc wheels refurbish in silver, full repaint of all body panels was dark blue sorry but I changed the colour to my taste in silver and dark metalic grey, with a light grey seat , managed to get new lights from america along with a new ignition lock of a 907 and a new starter motor, so I need now to sort the chain thing

Full set of decals etc from a nice man in yorkshire that made them in same colours customized as original, but in silver and grey, I am involved with motor sport with cars and know the head people within Michelin they moved heaven and earth to find me an original set of tyres and looked all over the world for 9 weeks with no luck, its a good job I know people in the racing world reference brembo seals thats another story brembo will not supply the public any more,

I live in lancashire near Padiham, so if you fancy a visit let me know your only round the corner in leigh. Bike is still in bits but going back together now its running perfect etc.

regards To both Barry

[hardo]

hi barry

it is still a nice bike and already getting exotic with a lot of fun to drive.

the tire problem is really a pain, but going back to the michelin tires is - at least in my mind - no option anymore.

e.g., the avon tires perform so much better than the michelin, even in the state the michelins were brandnew.

the michelin still have a tire design from the 1980th, no real modification had been done.

you are still able to get some nos (e.g., at ebay; i can also get some here in switzerland), but they had been produced in 2004 or earlier. it is for me no option, the tires are no good under normal driving conditions, don't buy such expensive old tires made of wood

as described in this thread, I had no problems in changing the tires and I also got an approval for 20 swiss francs from the vehicle inspection. the paso behaves like a new bike, the avon tires perform in my opinion very well on the paso.

all the best, hardo

[barrysmith]

Hi Hardo,

You have me with the michelins, I did not ride the bike with the old tyres on.

So I do not know what it was like with the Michelins on, so when its on the road , I will let you know what the avons are like,

Today I fitted the 14 tooth x 40 rear, with the 106 chain old and new , still to tight but nearer than last time, I am waiting for two half links that are on order from holland, should be here this week , so we will see if this helps allowing the chain to fit with correct adjustment, My old chain was only about 3m away from allowing the rear wheel and tyre freedom within the swinging arm so near but not right. The half link should do the trick, both new and old chain will stretch with use and the tyre will get smaller so I should in a 1000 miles be able to remove the half link,

Will let you both know the outcome, hopefully soon.

best regards to both Barry

[hardo]

Hi Barry

maybe it is only me but I could not really understand where the problem you have to face is exactly. As described I was only able to tighten the chain with the 15 / 40 combination and using a chain with 108 units. Does the chain touch other elements of the bike, for instance the swingarm or the tire? Clearly the halfrings should help to have more freedom in tightening the chain - in particular whenever the chain gets longer after using. I have very little space left to adjust the chain (it is less severe with a 180 / 60 / 16 because the radius of such a tire is a bit smaller). However, I am not aware of any other problem here. Maybe we can help with some additional information.

All the best, Hardo

[barrysmith]

Hi, Your combination worked 15 x 40 x 108 but the chain was hanging off and would not adjust tight, all other items were fine no touching of chain on wheel etc it was far to loose new or old chain made no difference.

Then tried the following .....106 was far to tight and jamming the tyre.

I then tried 106 x 14 x 40 far to tight, even with a smaller gearbox sprockit.

today I fitted an half link to both chains old and new perfect with both, approximatly still 50 % of additional adjustment left to tighten when needed , I should in time be able to remove half link when tyre gets worn and chain gets longer. I fitted chain with a soft end pin link instead of a split link , time will tell but its back together.

thanks everybody for your posting on the matter.


regards Barry.

[hardo]

Hi Berry

Before you used the half rings, with excenter position did you choose / try? For instance, you can see on my pics in this thread that I am using the 2 o'clock position (if you look from the left side to the bike). With the chain getting longer by using, I have very little space to adjust the chain (I did not see this as a very severe point as I had not to adjust the chain used before for a very long time - one just needs to use a good one).

However, if it really gets much longer, I may buy the halfrings because you need to move the excenter in the rear direction to adjust the chain. Hence I did not really unterstand why you thing of geeting rid of the halfrings if the chain gets longer by wearing. Am I wrong here?

Thanks, Hardo

[barrysmith]

Hi Hardo

I tried every position possible with no joy, with a full 106 chain to tight., the 108 was just to big on all positions.

The reason for the half ring removal is simple the chain is weak at that point due to the half ring being much lighter in steel than the rest of the chain ,they are made that way without the support of a side plate.( side plate fits one end only) Its alink that reduces in wall size to fit between supporting plates....

when the chain gets longer and the tyre wears, I should be able to fit the chain at 106 without the half link, this being the weak link.

Then the chain will be the same thoughout with side plates on all links and no split pin link.. solid chain right through.



regards Barry

[hardo]

thanks berry for the clarification. now I got the point here.

are you sure you use a 520 DID chain? differences could come from the intervall setting (perhaps not the right word here) of different chains (like 525 or 530). Vee2duc and I are using 520 with the 15 / 40 sprocket combination.

all the best and keep on riding, hardo

[barrysmith]

Hi Hardo.

Old chain DID 520 x 108 or-ring.

new chain DID 520 or-ring now 106 x 520


Looking at your bike you have no adjustment left, on the chain tensioners, you may also have to reduce your chain in time to gain tension.

regards Barry

[ukizook]

Another point thay "may" have made a slight difference between bikes is the welding on the inside of the swingarm at the front.
Some welds may be higher especially at the start or finish, this may be a few mill difference but it all adds up and sanding the welds flat will give a bit more space.

Barry when your up and running we'll have a meet at Southport or Rivvy pike sometime

[hardo]

@barry

thanks for the clarification.

yes, you are right, I have almost no freedom left to adjust the chain. However, with the old chain I was able to do 8.000 km withount any adjustment. I do not know how that is possible (all other bikes I have / had before needed regular adjustment). Whenever the chain gets too long I will check the next steps (buy new chain, change sprockets / buy halfrings ....). In any case, I am very happy that the tire problem is solved - at least for some time - and I really hated the Michelin tires and are very happy how the Avons perform on the bike.

@barry and @ukizook

this must be the answer, there must be some variance in the production in respect to the length of the swingarm. Maybe also the condition / adjustment of the shock absorber may has an (smal) influence.

@barry

please show pics whenever you got the bike back

[barrysmith]

Will do for both a photo or 2 and a ride out, The weld is proud but only about 2 m , it was not the weld,

otherwise I would have dressed it flush. I was about 8m to tight on tyre with the 106 x 14 x 50 the half link did the trick now about 14m clearence with 50% adjustment left on chain tensioner.

thanks Both Barry