Starter Motor ( I need ideas, help)

[angelix]

I got this project I am working on, it is an SS made with 10 different models and which engine is made using half PASO 750 half early Elefant 750...hence my posting here.

after some time of not starting the "thing" today I tried to cranck it and the starter was completely dead.

when I say dead, I turn the key , I press the button and other than the starter relais clicking, I hear nothing.

I checked all connections and the starter is grounded and I have +12V at the starter positive.

the lights do NOT dimm when i press the button, its sound llike the starter is completely disconnected

I tried hard wiring the starter with an external battery and nothing happens.

is it Brushes (they were replaced not loing time ago, probably they have 100 starts overall) ?

is it the motor?

thoughts?

I am quite annoyed, I just fitted a new stator/generator, fresh oil... Jeeeez.... God is really testing my patience....
,
I am already having nightmares...

[Mc tool]

Sure sounds like brushes. Maybe try pulling bike backwards in gear so as to move the starter, and then try the button again. Sometimes if you move the starter they work again ....till next time . If your sure you have power going to the starter ( and it sounds like you have ) and new brushes your probly going to have a good look at the starter. Did you clean up the commutator ( the copper strips the brushes contact )

[Derek]

Or it could be the solenoid. To check, bridge the solenoid terminals with a large screwdriver or spanner, be careful there could be big sparks. If nothing happens the starter is faulty, could be brushes like Hamish says. If the starter turns the solenoid is faulty.

[angelix]

I checked the solenoid, that works and I also went direct with a car battery. No go.

I attempted moving the engine but still no life from the starter. Usually if these things burn they do it in stages so I would still have some kind of load that can be seen when the lights are on but in my case there is absolutely zero.

I will take the brushes out and check... I just hope I dont have to take apart half engine , I am not sure if I can remove the starter without taking out the flywheel....

[Tamburinifan]

Starter +lead connection is good?
It should be isolated from cover via bakelite type thick washer.

[angelix]

aha! got to the root of the problem.

the brushes are gone, completely to the point they barely touch.

the starter looks good, very well made, the internal wiring looks intact and with the protective resin in a good condition despite the age.

the commutator (the copper bit where the brushes make contact ) looks a little rough and would benefit of a polish on the lathe but that means taking it out and at the moment that is not an option

If and when I reopen the crankcase on the flywheel side, then I will replace the whole thing, they cost new less than 100 quid so it is a no brainer...

I will order now a brush kit, was thinking of getting them from Electrex UK, but I welcome any suggestions.

[Mc tool]

They are the same as a Suzuki GN 250 and can be got on eBay for nix,have a look as there are various kits available with just brushes to the whole thing inc o rings. I got 2 sets and the quality looks to be as good as reasonably could be. Then have a look at the Ducati parts and note the same thing is double the price,lookin at the pix shows them to be pretty much identicle. The commutator can be polished up a bit with wet&dry sandpaper ( all I have ever done ) just give it a good blast to clear any dust away , the whole innards usually need a good clean with aerosol degreaser .

[angelix]

Its Alive!!!



I got tjhe kit from ELectrex, being a little OCD i decided it was "not good enough" and made a slight mod using a couple of bits from the old set, my starter is late 80s so there are very slight differences...

having said that, the kit went on fine , it took in total 35 minutes to fit it and it spins very well.

once the brushes set it sould be even better.

I am happy.